Being a teacher in this economy - worth it?

Parents Forum
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<p>I’m with you sybbie as a current teacher/previous corporate world career. LOL</p>

<p>Other corporate perks/teacher perks: </p>

<p>In the corporate world, there were those delightful expense account dinners at the most expensive restaurants on the West Coast and those elaborate Christmas parties at pricey hotels. As a teacher, the office will send out a lunch order for the teachers and have it delivered (as long as the teacher pays for the lunch)! Our Christmas party is a potluck at a staff member’s house, and the end of year all teacher lunch is at a cheap restaurant (for which we must all pick up our own tab)! </p>

<p>In the corporate world, there was a pastry cart that went around to all of the offices every morning, and there were delivered dinners if working late. All free! As a teacher, the leftovers from the Christmas party are put in the staff room for all to enjoy. We can also get coffee and bottled water in the office (as long as we pay for it).</p>

<p>In the corporate world, I often attended fully paid for conferences and seminars at my whim — all during regular working hours. As a teacher, it has been years since there has been any money for professional development, although I am highly encouraged to pay for and take clases on my own time and dollar.</p>

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<p>I’m sorry I was part of the diversion of this thread.</p>

<p>But I want to state again that despite the low pay and the overall attacks on the profession, and the lack of respect in some circles, I do love teaching. I, too, would still do it knowing what I know now. It’s cliche, but when you do it well, you do make a difference in the lives of young people. Not all of them, but you’re going to reach a lot of them.</p>

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<p>Run, don’t walk, away. Schools are furloughing teachers, creating larger classes, and pressuring teachers to freeze their salaries. Take a look at Wisconsin. Collective bargaining will be history very soon, which means teachers’ salaries will take a dive. Teacher bashing is a popular hobby.</p>

<p>I’m telling my daughter to advise her friends to change their major from elementary education to something else. Anything else. The future of education does not look promising.</p>

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<p>All the hysterics aside, the facts show that teachers do extremely well compared to other college grads especially given their exorbitant benefits and almost part-time work schedule and “no fire” job security. </p>

<p>[url=&lt;a href=“http://www.worldsalaries.org/usa.shtml]Link[/url”&gt;Average Salary in United States for 2023]Link[/url</a>]</p>

<p>Public sector employees are finally being forced to deal with the same economic realities that their private sector counter-parts have faced for years. And they don’t like it one bit.</p>

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<p>“All the hysterics aside, the facts show that teachers do extremely well compared to other college grads…”</p>

<p>Do the facts show that? Only 27% of all adults hold a Bachelor’s degree. It is understandable then that many of those other 73% earn less than the college grads. But among the 27% with degrees are teachers’ earnings really that much better? I’d like to see some authoritative figures before I buy into that one.</p>

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<p>People are messaging me, asking about this panacea of high salaries and low property prices that I live in. LOL. Well, only kinda sorta.</p>

<p>I live in a declining area. The kind of place were jobs and people have fled, and the remaining folks are left to pay big taxes and put together the pieces. Still interested? Think about how you would feel when someone asks you where you live, and then says “uggh” after your reply? Even if it’s really not so bad, you’ll still be thinking about your eventual migration out.</p>

<p>Housing prices are at the national median, meaning you can easily buy below or above. So sure, starter homes can be had cheaply. But did anybody notice my point about the shocking property taxes? When I said shocking, I really meant shocking. Whatever number you have in mind, it is low. Also, home values haven’t even kept up with inflation over the past two decades (0-1.5%/year). Even in places with the big boom/bust, people saw a double-double-double (or more) before the crash. Every friend of mine who bought in hot markets 15-20 years ago is up a cool million at least. Around here, home ownership is truly a bozo financial move (I’m a bozo :)). Renting is smart.</p>

<p>Also, the teacher salaries might sound great, but does the teacher have a spouse? In a declining area, the only things left are government, schools, hospitals, essential services, lawyers, small businesses and a smattering of other stuff. The spouse may find it difficult to get a job at a third the salary that could be commanded elsewhere, may be perennially underemployed, and may have few options when things go wrong. So although teachers may be big fish in a pond like this, it’s not necessarily the most attractive pond.</p>

<p>So it’s not dreamland. One poster mentioned wishing that deals like this could be find in update NY. Well hmmmm, are there any declining rustbelt cities up north in NY that still might have a few suburbs with remnants of solid infrastructure? I know, I can hear you; “…, but, but, who would want to live there?”</p>

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<p>toblin (and others), I guess the only thing I can say is this: If teachers have such a sweet deal, why don’t you join us?</p>

<p>Yes, you’ll have to pay for your own education, but there are sources on this board who can give you leads to jobs where you can make $100,00 for part-time work.</p>

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<p>Teachers do not have 'no-fire" job security. Just because a teacher has tenure, does not mean that they cannot be fired. It simply means that there has to be due process, for cause and there has to be some documentation before termination and you have the right to representation by your union (which does not happen with non-tenured employees.)</p>

<p>You probably don’t hear about teachers getting fired because some principals are lazy putting together the paperwork. But I know plenty of APs/Principals who have had no problem doing the 30/20 documentation to get teachers fired.</p>

<p>And yes, if there is a job action like a layoff, tenured people can and do get laid off.</p>

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<p>One thing that people are missing in this thread: teacher compensation in many places involves much more than salary. In cases where a fully funded pension is part of the package, things are completely different. If you were to convert that income stream to the current value of an equivalent annuity, a seasoned teacher could be full-pay for any college just on that asset alone - without any consideration of income. Of course that’s not actually considered for EFC calculations, but in reality it’s a very substantial asset. Also, guaranteed heath care in retirement is quite a benefit.</p>

<p>It’s odd, but on this board people seem to focus on wage income, but ignore the overall situation. You also see people confusing income with wealth (and class, and lifestyle). Anyway, a slight divergence.</p>

<p>Of course, times are tough right now, and these kinds of benefits may not survive except in the kind of states where the unions and the education establishment is solid. So the OP is right to think hard about this. But I believe that the good teachers will do even better in the future, far better. As a country, we are certainly paying big dollars for education, but as we all know, a lot of it is eaten up in the bureaucracy. We need to find a way to get that money to the good teachers, but that won’t be pleasant for the others.</p>

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<p>While we are railing on public employees…</p>

<p>Did you know</p>

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<p>And you do not need a degree to work for sanitation. A teacher with a masters + 30 credits makes less money after the same 5 1/2 years of service. In addition, sanitation workers have a better pension and can retire after 20 years (current teacher retirement is 25/55). In short sanitation workers over the long range are better paid than teachers but we’re not railing about that.</p>

<p>There is a lot of misinformation floating around. Most of the NYC fully funded pension people (tier I & tier II) are retired or are going to be gone momentarily, Tier3, tier 4, are definitely not fully funded with tier 5 coming those employees will have to fund their own retirement.</p>

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<p>Who has guaranteed health care in retirement? Certainly, not teachers in my district!</p>

<p>But, I will agree that the police officers and firefighters in California have this benefit. (I continue to find it fascinating that teachers are considered evil and greedy, yet there is almost no discussion about police/ firefighters benefits.)</p>

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<p>I’m one of those guys that dropped out of college after a year and went to work full-time. I had a passion for a particular area which was in high demand at the time and finding work that paid well was fairly easy.</p>

<p>I eventually did get my degrees.</p>

<p>Do you have a passion for something? Can you make a living at it? Or become an expert at it and then get a job at it?</p>

<p>Getting a degree tells employers that you were able to: put up with the administrative crap in getting a degree, that you have some general skills and perhaps specific skills. You seem to be whining about some things about the college environment. Those things exist in a lot of occupations and most people just learn to live with it.</p>

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<p>camathmom - Although teachers in my district have guaranteed health care in retirement, I’m sure that there are many places where they don’t. Honestly, I posted a message on an internet forum. It wasn’t directed explicitly at your hometown! </p>

<p>My purpose in posting info about my area was to show the OP that there are places where teachers can do pretty well. (Hopefully that’s OK with you.)</p>

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<p>Mika08 - Follow your dreams. But have a back up plan if things don’t work out. </p>

<p>The following was sent to me in an email recently.</p>

<p>What Do Teachers Make?
The dinner guests were sitting around the table discussing life.
One man, a CEO, decided to explain the problem with education. He argued, “What’s a kid going to learn from someone who decided his best option in life was to become a teacher?”
To stress his point he said to another guest; “You’re a teacher, Barbara. Be honest. What do you make?”
Barbara, who had a reputation for honesty and frankness replied, “You want to know what I make? (She paused for a second, then began)
Well, I make kids work harder than they ever thought they could.
I make a C+ feel like the Congressional Medal of Honor winner.
I make kids sit through 40 minutes of class time when their parents can’t make them sit for 5 without an iPod, Game Cube or movie rental.
You want to know what I make? (She paused again and looked at each and every person at the table)
I make kids wonder.
I make them question.
I make them apologize and mean it.
I make them have respect and take responsibility for their actions.
I teach them to write and then I make them write. Keyboarding isn’t everything. I make them read, read, read.
I make them show all their work in math. They use their God given brain, not the man-made calculator.
I make my students from other countries learn everything they need to know about English while preserving their unique cultural identity.
I make my classroom a place where all my students feel safe.
I make my students stand, placing their hand over their heart to say the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag, One Nation Under God, because we live in the United States of America.
Finally, I make them understand that if they use the gifts they were given, work hard and follow their hearts, they can succeed in life (Barbara paused one last time and then continued.)
Then, when people try to judge me by what I make, with me knowing money isn’t everything, I can hold my head up high and pay no attention because they are ignorant.
You want to know what I make?
I make a difference.
What do you make Mr. CEO?”
His jaw dropped, he went silent.</p>

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<p>My purpose in posting info here is to inform the OP that there are many, many places where teachers do not do well financially. The media and the current zeitgeist that blames greedy teachers would have us all believe that all teachers are rolling in the dough. In fact, while there may be places where teachers do very well such as your hometown MrK, the reality is that most teachers struggle financially. And the way it looks right now, teachers can expect it only to get worse.</p>

<p>Any young person considering going into teaching should know this.</p>

<p>But, hey, if the OP decides to go into teaching, I hope for them that they get a job in MrK’s hometown!</p>

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<p>OK, fair enough. But it’s really not a matter of “misterk’s hometown” - there are many places just like this. Any aspiring teacher with a web browser can find them. You can too, if you’re interested.</p>

<p>Hey, one thing that I wanted to clarify. I’ve seen lots of comments about “hating teachers”, and “continued railing against teachers,” and snarky crap like “some posters can hook you up with a $100,000 deal.” At least some of those comments were directed at me, but they’re just wrong.</p>

<p>I chose to live in this area, high property taxes and all, precisely because I wanted a great public school education for my kids. That means making the district financially attractive so that we have great teachers to choose from. That’s why I live here. We do get our fair share of lemons (like anywhere), and there’s a lot of needless spending on bureaucracy, but the overall results are fine. In this district, teachers are paid well above the median of the residents.</p>

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<p>Yes, and that process is what created the famous rubber rooms in New York. </p>

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<p>Yes, indeed. But it is not hard to use google to check for verifiable facts. On the other hours, there is plenty of information that is subject to interpretation, especially about hours worked and yearly salaries that do not cover a full year. </p>

<p>There is a solution to eliminate such misinformation. Separate facts from fiction and mythical tales. Self-serving anecdotes from verifiable research. Make the profession what it should have been: a 12 months a year job with benefits and pay similar to the private sector. Eliminate the summer breaks by structuring all training and conferences during the summer and other breaks. Make it clear that the salaries are annual salaries that are based on at-school presence. </p>

<p>What about the grading and class preparation? Well, make ALL of it to be performed at the workplace. This way there won’t be any more issues of disruption of family dinners and unpaid overtime. </p>

<p>Is such a scenario possible? Obviously not when the alternatives are so much more pleasant.</p>

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<p>Depending on the goal of your life. If you want to be “the engineer of the mind”, then teacher is it. If you want to be rich, then go to the Wall Street.</p>

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<p>Who placed teachers in rubber rooms? Principals and administrators? Who fell down with the follow through that kept teachers in the rubber room for years on end? Principals, Administrators and the great folks at Tweed.</p>

<p>The “rubber rooms”, which no longer exists, were created because Principals and Administrators did not do their due diligence in documenting, documenting, documenting to get a teacher out of a job due to incompetence/misconduct along with the city dragging their butts to get to the bottom of the situation. By November, many teachers were assigned back to their home schools because there were no charges brought against them.</p>

<p>Now you have 10 days to bring charges after you remove a teacher from the classroom to bring charges for incompetence and 60 days to bring charges of misconduct. This charges are not brought within this time frame the teacher is returned to the classroom. A decision has to be made within 30 days of the hearing.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.uft.org/files/attachments/temporary-reassignment-centers-agreement-april-2010.pdf[/url]”>http://www.uft.org/files/attachments/temporary-reassignment-centers-agreement-april-2010.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>However, this is still not making administrators write up teachers for incompetence/misconduct (I have a friend who is a principal that constantly complains about about one of their employees. However, the person has worked for the DOE for 26 years and is the UFT rep. One would think that this person would be leading the charge when it comes to doing their job. But it is not happening. This is a monster the principal created because s/he has said they do not have the ‘time’ to do all of the documentation needed for a 30/20 to get the person terminated. They just wait each year in the hope that this person will retire but it has not happened yet.</p>

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<p>To the OP…follow your dream if that is teaching. It’s a very good profession. As this thread shows, there are folks who respect your profession and there are folks who do not. There are folks who will think you are underpaid and folks who will think you are overpaid. There are folks who think teachers are the reason for higher town budgets and folks who want their teachers to earn decent salaries because the want the town to recruit and retain excellent teachers. </p>

<p>Regarding some of the above:</p>

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<p>We are guaranteed health insurance through our group until age 65 BUT we have to PAY for the full cost for it minus the $110 per month from the teachers retirement board (btw, I contribute $110 a month TO that health insurance fund as a working teacher and have done so for at least 20 years). Guaranteed doesn’t mean that it’s a NO COST to the teacher. </p>

<p>So MisterK…if you were to read our BOE policy, it states “Teachers are able to continue as members of the group plan until age 65. They pay 100% of the costs of this coverage with a $110 contribution per month from the State Teachers Retirement Board.” </p>

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<p>I think this is a good idea, but my guess is that folks think the hours should simply be added to the current workday and that the current salaries are fine for this. Also, it doesn’t solve MY problem of needing to speak to parents who are not available until after 8:00 in the evenings because they work, have dinner and then put their children to bed (as they should). MOST of my school related phone calls take place between 8-10 in the evening. Are you suggesting that I stay at school to do these.</p>

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<p>I could not afford a house in the district in which I am employed. They are FAR too expensive. I live a town away. But to be honest, I’m not sure I could afford a house in my CURRENT town if I were to build it today. </p>

<p>This thread (and many others that have “teacher” in them) evolve into the same discussion. I find it very odd that folks come to a COLLEGE forum where they are looking for tips about higher education for their kiddos but then feel it’s necessary to bash those who provide education to their children. Ironic.</p>