<p>There are also new guidlines for granting tenure.</p>
<p>[DOE</a> Memo: New tenure guidelines | United Federation of Teachers](<a href=“http://www.uft.org/news/doe-memo-new-tenure-guidelines]DOE”>http://www.uft.org/news/doe-memo-new-tenure-guidelines)</p>
<p>Thumper, Ironic indeed.
I agree and I think it is just sad all of the teacher bashing that goes on here on CC.</p>
<p>Sybbie – I think there are procedural aspects with NYC termination hearings of tenured teachers that the Mayor has demanded changes to, including that there are a limited pool of hearing officers. Right now, even after principal submits charges, it can take a long time to get a hearing. The union has negotatied rules which some might regard as protecting rights and others might regard as deliberately slowing the process.</p>
<p>Thumper – cant many of your parents take calls while at work?</p>
<p>I dont see much of this as teacher bashing, but rather that parents who are involved with their kids educated, understand the educational process, many of whom are educated themselves want some changes.</p>
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<p>No they can’t and they tell me so. Even the executives. </p>
<p>Also, my time during the day is limited too…I have STUDENTS during most of the day. I do have some planning time and my lunch. I am sometimes able to make some of these calls during this time IF it is compatible with the available time of the parent.</p>
<p>I work in special education. I often need to talk to BOTH parents…and that is impossible to do from school.</p>
<p>I know many parents who are available for calls between say 3 and 5, and if pre-arranged, a conference call can be set up by many parents.</p>
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<p>In the case I mentioned, there are no procedural issues involved. The principal has not written one document regarding the incompetence of this person, s/he justs shifts other people around to take up the slack.</p>
<p>OK Sybbie, in that ONE case you mentined that was the sitch. If there were only ONE teacher in rubber room, no one would be complaining.</p>
<p>“Hey, one thing that I wanted to clarify. I’ve seen lots of comments about “hating teachers”, and “continued railing against teachers,” and snarky crap like “some posters can hook you up with a $100,000 deal.” At least some of those comments were directed at me, but they’re just wrong.”</p>
<p>MisterK, look at post #72 (a post by someone other than you). Snarky? I am TIRED of
everyone thinking teachers are paid too much and work too little. Honestly, I’d like to know how anyone thinks a teacher can teach during their contract day of 7 1/2 hours AND also plan the lessons, prepare the materials, grade the papers, return phone calls or e-mails to parents, go to meetings for special education students, attend staff meetings and/or professional development. When do people think we do these things?</p>
<p>“There is a solution to eliminate such misinformation. Separate facts from fiction and mythical tales. Self-serving anecdotes from verifiable research. Eliminate the summer breaks by structuring all training and conferences during the summer and other breaks. Make it clear that the salaries are annual salaries that are based on at-school presence.”</p>
<p>I would love to have my weekends off and to work only 40-45 hours a week. Instead, I work 60 hours a week and always have things to do over the weekend. </p>
<p>“What about the grading and class preparation? Well, make ALL of it to be performed at the workplace. This way there won’t be any more issues of disruption of family dinners and unpaid overtime.”</p>
<p>Mine is performed at the workplace. I am there every day for 11-12 hours. (It’s verifiable.) Many of my colleagues have to leave because of child care, so they take their work with them.</p>
<p>“Make the profession what it should have been: a 12 months a year job with benefits and pay similar to the private sector.”</p>
<p>Yes, it is a profession, and we should be paid accordingly. I don’t think I am underpaid, but neither do I think I am overpaid. I will never make $100,000. The top salary in my district is $90,000 and that is for someone with 35 years experience and a Master’s degree plus 45 additional hours. </p>
<p>PLEASE LISTEN–I never complained about my pay, benefits, or hours worked–until recently, when it seems as though teacher bashing is the thing to do. What we are required to do (I’m talking about the minimum) takes more than our contract time. What most of us WANT to do takes even more time than that. I did not become a teacher because I thought it was an easy way to make money and have the summer off. I LOVE being able to make a difference and that takes a LOT of time. I wouldn’t have it any other way. These are kids we are talking about, not some kind of product. I owe it to them to do everything I can to help them learn–and to be excited about learning. Teachers are working with our most precious resource–our children. It would be nice to have just a bit of respect for what we do.</p>
<p>Sportsmama, </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Of course you are not complaining about your wages and benefits. Duh. </p></li>
<li><p>Every private sector worker I know brings work home, has unpaid OT and works more than stated hours. </p></li>
<li><p>The private sector employees have had to take a number of reductions. The description of private sector employment that people give here is, imho, not current or not representative. </p></li>
<li><p>The public sector unions never gave a d@@n about private sector employees. When Perot kept banging on NAFTA pushing jobs out of the US, the public sector unions didnt care. Why not? Maybe they thought there jobs couldnt be outsourced, so why care? But now, it is coming back to haunt us. </p></li>
<li><p>Teachers are not saints. Everytime they end with we owe it to the kids, I barf.</p></li>
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<p>There are now no people in the rubber room, because there is no rubber room, but it has not stopped people from complaining.</p>
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<p>Nobody disagreed that there are many private sector workers who do this. I think what some of us are trying to do here is to counteract the idea that teaching is an overpaid, part-time profession. We’re pointing out is that there are many teachers who do bring home work, have unpaid OT and work more than stated hours as well. </p>
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<p>Right, but the profession should not be a ‘calling’ anymore than any other profession is, or at least we should stop using the notion that the profession is a ‘calling’ as an excuse for low pay.</p>
<p>Sybbie, yes the “rubber room” is gone. But arent there teachers still waiting a long time for a hearing?</p>
<p>skylr - so teachers purportedly work 9-3 and bring work home. Others purportedy work 9-5 and bring work home.</p>
<p>Nope, those days are gone. Under the new process the whole thing has to be wrapped up within 90 days</p>
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<p>The only teachers who can afford to live in many of our country districts have bought their houses a long time ago. There are areas in my school district that teachers or just about anyone employed at even minimum wage full time can afford, but I doubt very much if any school teachers would want to live in them. I almost got thrown out of a meeting when i brought that up regarding the fire workers and police, by the way, who were complaining about the same thing. </p>
<p>The teachers in the Catholic schools where my kids went/go are paid a fraction what the public teachers are paid. We have very little turnover, and the teachers are, in my opinion, excellent, of the quality that I am paying after tax dollars for my kids to go there instead of to their very highly rated public schools. I think most public school teachers are being paid well within the fair range of what they should be getting. That was not the case some years ago which I always felt was danged shame, and I fully supported that this profession deserves to be paid a living wage and then some. But I think we have reach that point. </p>
<p>I think teaching is a wonderful profession. There are very few jobs out there in any field with any security or guarantees any more. An old friend whose husband was a partner at a major law firm was furloughed after a major restructuring. At one time this would have been an unheard of doing. Associates work harder than sled dogs to get that holy grail of partnership, not only for the pay but for the life long security. No more. There is not necessarily the pay anymore, nor the security. The same for government employees. I am the daughter of a very low paid, low level late government employee. I was making more money than he within a few years after I was out of college, but he did have generous pension, health benefits and job security. But that is not the case anymore for his particular job. I don’t know if that job is worth the lower than market pay it offers anymore since the security and benefits are no longer sure to be there with the way things are going, but honestly, the way things are going, just being in the position to get that job, any job has been a blessing.</p>
<p>I am in agreement with Xiggi as to standardizing the hours for teachers’ pay. Those hours can be set with an allowance for teacher’s after school conferences and calls. </p>
<p>But there are many jobs that extend beyond hours regularly and you just have to do it as part of the whole package if you are a professional. It’s just part of what you sign up for. My husband is a senior executive who has to take calls and do work on Sundays if the client wants to do things that way. He doesn’t get any extra consideration for doing this. And doing this during his entire career is what got him to his job today. He has department workers who have to hop after hours, weekends and vacations if that is what it takes. Every effort is made not to let this happen, and the truth of the matter is that my DH takes most of these situations so that those who work with him do not get their off time disrupted unless absolutely necessary,happening maybe a few time a year, but that’s just the way it works. </p>
<p>I got a lecture from the guy who does all of my HVAC work when I called him on a holiday weekend Friday evening when my heat went out. I have two ~85 year olds living with us and they feel the cold terribly. He was shocked and upset when he showed up Tuesday and I had the problem solved by then. It was no surprise to me that he is out of business. He was telling me about family time and other such things when I needed a service done right then and there and could find someone else to do it. Can’t replace a recalcitrant teacher or government employee like that.</p>
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<p>And so we’re back to the notion that teachers don’t work enough for the amount of pay they’re getting. </p>
<p>Fine. There’s no convincing you to the contrary.</p>
<p>I know a lot of physicians who quite seriously advise youngsters to stay away from the medical profession because there’s only doom and gloom in the future. There are accountants, computer folk, you name it, who do the same indicating that outsourcing has destroyed their profession. </p>
<p>What I’m seeing is a similar reaction amongst school teachers. Things may not be as great as it was before, but from the standpoint of benefits, job security, and hours worked per year, it still continues to compare favorably with many jobs in the private sector. Of course there are some very driven teacher with lots of specialized skills who could have done better elsewhere, but the fact is there are a lot more mediocre teachers with no special talent or drive who lead comfortable lives and retire at a relatively young age with healthy pensions.</p>
<p>Please tell me at what school can I work from 9 to 3 pm as the contracted hours are longer than what is purported in post #112 (misinformed again). </p>
<p>My current work schedule is from 8 to 3:15. However, I usually arrive at work at 7 am and I leave at 5:30 pm in addition to answering student/parent responses once I get home and over the weekend. Did I mention that I worked everyday of last week’s winter break? But, you weren’t talking about me.</p>
<p>Sybbie719,</p>
<p>Tell me where I can find a 9 to 5 office job and I will tell you where you can find a 9 to 3 teachers job.</p>
<p>Even before the great recession, my school district had hundreds of applicants for every teaching job (other than math and certain science). hmm my office not so many.</p>
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<p>Right, because the supposed fact that there are hundreds of applicant for every teaching job just proves that teaching is a overpaid, cushy profession. Why else would anyone else want that job kind of job, right?</p>
<p>Might it have something to do with the fact that for years, and even in some places recently, there were all these claims that there would be teacher shortages?</p>
<p>When in recent history have there been claims of teacher shortages (other than say math?</p>