<p>Where I live the sanitation workers have a very high injury/disability rate. It is back breaking work.</p>
<p>kayf, some of our employees have the same issue with the intensity of lifting and workload…my husband included
our collectors have very strict limits on the sizes of garbage recepticals they will deal with</p>
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<p>Why do feel compelled to assume that others need a “big hint” to know “even know” what the ATR pool is, and how teachers enter and leave the pool? </p>
<p>I wrote that the city still does have to deal with the issue of having more than 1,000 reserve teachers. Is that correct or is it not? Is it correct that this costs the DOE in excess of $100,000,000 per year --more than 3 times what the rubber rooms did cost.</p>
<p>Further, is the description of a few ATRs in the article below correct or not?</p>
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<p>The bias one uses to look at this type of information changes little to the fact that such problems should be addressed and resolved.</p>
<p>I do not understand why teachers, on this thread and on tv coverage, say everyone is bashing them. As has been mentioned elsewhere, respecting the job teachers do and acknowledging their hard work does not mean we should not question the bloated and guaranteed benefits they receive, including those that the private sector haven’t rec’d in years. Xiggi and lje2 have stated well the difficulties many of us have with the tenure, pensions, and health insurance benefits of teachers. Questioning economic realities of today does not equate with bashing.</p>
<p>A good example of the rhetoric in my district: our sup’t made sure to have a big article on the front page of the local newspaper detailing how the teachers had made so many concessions, includng <em>no</em> pay raises. In my book, “no” means “not any”. Ummmm, right… He neglected to mention that they were still receiving the step increases for each year of seniority. So every teacher with under 18 years of experience DID receive more money. When one’s boss in industry says “no” pay raises, he means just that.</p>
<p>I have a real problem understanding why good teachers are so scared of merit pay and processes to rid the profession of the deadbeats. They rail against raises based on some rubric and the subjective opinion of one or a few superiors? Again, that is how private industry works. I do understand that public education, due to its inherent “public” factor can never entirely be ran like a private industry in the free market. However, I do think it’s time changes were made in the way teacher unions operate, strangle-hold, and protect, encourage, and reward being mediocre.</p>
<p>
It absolutely is. After the Christmas storm, my husband worked 12 hours a day for 62 straight days, some of them spent digging out fire hydrants and fire houses. But the fact does remain that those tax free pensions after 20 years of service are crippling the City. My BIL retired at 42 on a full pension with lifetime medical for himself and his wife. The cost of that is staggering and it is not uncommon among the uniformed services.</p>
<p>There may be other administrators (principals) that don’t want the high-profile job of a superintendent.</p>
<p>[Some superintendents are higher profile than others](<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorials/2014334398_edit27goodloe.html”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorials/2014334398_edit27goodloe.html</a>)</p>
<p>MG-J has a Ph.d in education administration from Uc-Denver. Can’t say she has ever been a strong administrator- closing buildings/programs without listening to the community doesn’t mean you are skilled- just pig headed.
She has a remarkable affinity for her Blackberry though.</p>
<p>My oldest daughter is currently in a M.A.T. program & while it is very hard work ( she is considered full time staff at a K-8, where she teaches as part of a team concurrently with her university course work- in another state- not Seattle), it is very rewarding & I am comforted knowing that it will be difficult to offshore her job & that there will always be a need for good teachers.</p>
<p>For example: a high school English teacher is excessed because the school is phasing out. S/he does not get picked up during Open Market (the time period where teachers can change schools, leave positions and apply for other positions). All jobs have to be posted on the Open Market system even if the Principal is going to fill the job internally. In the event of a new school opening, the principal of the new school can hire 40% of his/her staff from the outside (at a lower cost).</p>
<p>Teacher is assigned to a high school as a in-house sub where s/he fills in for whatever other teacher is absent. They still have to show up to work every day and will still be evaluated at the end of the year for whatever principal that they are working for.</p>
<p>Under the current contract there is no “forced placement”. This means that the English teacher who had a job in the Manhattan high school superintendency cannot be forced to take a job in Far Rockaway because that is where there is an opening for a English teacher. If they work in the Manhattan superintendency, they cannot be made to interview for a job in Queens unless the teacher wants to go. If the teacher wants to apply for a job in Far Rockaway, and gets a job in Far Rockaway, that is their choice. Once they take a job in Far Rockaway, they are now part of the Queens high school superintendency.</p>
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<p>So what? Can you force someone who has been working in the private sector for 25-30 years to retire? No.</p>
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<p>Cathie Black now has to get to the root causes as to why teachers in ATR are not being picked up. I do not think working as a sub day in, day out wold be anyone’s idea of fun. The biggest reason is that Principals do not want to absorb the salaries of teachers who have a lot of years in the system as it would take a major hit to their budgets. Why pay $100k for someone with 25 years in the system when you can hire 2 new teachers from the outside for the same amount of $$. Until the hiring freeze a few years ago, this is exactly what was happening- many teachers stayed in ATR, because principals could get and did get cheaper labor on the outside because now they have to manage their own budgets where the biggest hit is going to be labor.</p>
<p>A teacher in ATR is obligated to go on any and all interviews they are assigned. However, they get 3 opportunities to turn down an offer of employment.</p>
<p>sryrstress - Well said. This thread really went off in the crazy direction with all the accusations of bashing. A number of good points that were brought up respectfully that deserved intelligent discussion, but that doesn’t appear to be likely.</p>
<p>I had another observation about this thread: the amazing amount of mythology of how wonderful things are in the private sector! Unreal!</p>
<p>Sure the system is bloated and needs reform. Negotiated benefits are always restricted by available money. All the state has to do is restrict funding to employee groups and then begin negotiations with the people who work there how to make due with what is available in a negotiation. I am an idealist I guess.</p>
<p>Perhaps a better approach on some benefits would be to reform not only taxes, social security, but (shock) healthcare. Bring the cost of health insurance down to where most, even small business, could afford it. This would save tax dollars by lowering premiums. Might even kill two birds with one stone so to speak. But instead some seem to want to drag all down to the lowest denominator and attack the problem from the wrong end.</p>
<p>As to job protection. Not a problem everywhere it seems</p>
<p>A quote
“Wyoming school districts each fired, on average, 2.6 teachers in 2007-08, according to the U.S. Department of Education. Most were continuing-contract teachers — two, on average, per district.
Of the 7,273 teachers employed in 2009-10, 567 did not return for the 2010-11 school year and most, 361, were teachers with four years or more experience, according to state reports.
Applying the termination rate to last year’s data would mean about 27 percent of continuing-contract teachers who left were terminated.”</p>
<p>Source
<a href=“http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/article_90a9fb7c-6939-5e56-b7b1-45948fb9bed0.html[/url]”>http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/article_90a9fb7c-6939-5e56-b7b1-45948fb9bed0.html</a></p>
<p>Perhaps the big cities can learn from the more rural west.</p>
<p>Well, I must be living under a rock. I did not know that the rubber rooms had been eliminated and appreciate the description of the ATR. There is no such thing as the ATR where I live. </p>
<p>Please do not assume that all teachers live a privileged professional life. I have worked with a teacher contract for over 30 consecutive years. I have two master’s degrees. I earn less than $60,000. No 401K matching. DH, same thing. Our kids are not eligible for any significant financial aid. Fortunately, they both got good merit aid. No regrets, just saying.</p>
<p>OP, if you decide to teach, enter the profession with eyes wide open.</p>
<p>Sybbie - In response to “So what? Can you force someone who has been working in the private sector for 25-30 years to retire? No.”</p>
<p>Yes you fire people in the private sector. Employers are not supposed to discriminate, but even assuming that they do not, if a division is closed, people get fired.</p>
<p>In Texas, we do not have unions with collective bargaining rights. No rubber rooms. Teachers can get fired. I’ve never heard of salaries above about $65,000 (with Master or PHD and 30 years experience.) We pay into a pension fund, and pay into a Retirement health fund - and then when we retire, we pay into the retirement health system some more. Not all states are like New Jersey!</p>
<p>Anxious, I believe you. But I would ask you to believe me that the picture some paint as the nirvana of private sector employment is not indicative of most of the private sector as I see it.</p>
<p>I think true of most of us anxious. We have unions in Montana but the pay here is very low. I know a small district with a starting salary of 20K. When you subtract healthcare, taxes, and Pension withholding a new teacher there is barely bringing home $1,000 a month. I am also under 60K with a masters and 20 years in. I pay half my pension costs and a good chunk of healthcare for my family.</p>
<p>Teachers get painted with broad brushes across the country based on high profile abuses that simply aren’t found in a majority of places. For most of us there is no big gravy train.</p>
<p>For example – Wyo fires teachers at a rate comparable to the private world.</p>
<p>Today the city released the schools that will be affected by the proposed 4600 layoffs</p>
<p>[New</a> York Releases Proposed Teacher Layoffs By School](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>New York Releases Proposed Teacher Layoffs By School | HuffPost New York)</p>
<p>positions not affected:</p>
<p>SPED
Bilingual SPED
ESL
Speech imporvement</p>
<p>Largest hit - Elementary Education</p>
<p>This is important info for the OP.</p>
<p>Regardless of whether or not teachers are too well-compensated or are poorly compensated (which those of us on this thread disagree about), the harsh reality is that there are no jobs for teachers.</p>
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<p>Doesn’t that make this the ideal time to start becoming one? Maybe many prospective students will soon shy away from this field. In the meantime, Boomers will continue to retire in greater numbers each year for the next decade (peak birth year was 1956 + 65 years = 2021). Also note that such jobs are among the few that cannot be outsourced abroad.</p>
<p>In 5 years, when this high schooler has his college diploma in hand, the market could be totally upside-down from today.</p>
<p>I agree.
I don’t remember if I already posted this before I I lost my connection- but my D is currently in a M.A.T. two -yr program at a private university. However her practicum includes working fulltime as 1/2 of a team in a looped elementary classroom at an affiliated K-8 school. Most of her classes are at the school, although she also has some at the university on weekends. The best elementary school in Seattle wanted her as their apprentice teacher for a year, but that wouldn’t have given her the flexibility a masters degree will, so I am not worried about her ability to find work.</p>
<p>I agree that good teachers can have an easier time of it than other professions- they aren’t going to be able to off shore education & as far as I know, they keep cranking out the kiddos.</p>
<p>Whether it is working in a private school, a public school, tutoring or writing curriculum- I know she will have a lot of options about what path she wants to take.
( in our school district- beginning teachers start in the $40,000 range- not bad when you are in your 20’s- that’s with a BA, other districts are higher- & they jump quite a bit when you have your MA)</p>
<p>I’m wondering however- what the classsize is in the districts that don’t pay well.
Our district has about 28 in a K-2 class & can have 32 in a class for 3rd-12th.
When ever we pass something to reduce class size there seems to be an option to keep classes the same & use the money to " train the teachers to handle that size of class"</p>
<p>Our superintendent has said that " class size doesn’t matter"- but with any luck she won’t be around here much longer.</p>
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<p>Cuomo just introduced legislation that would limit the salary of superintendents. Do you think that such salary caps will prevent districts from finding someone to hire in this economy? It will be interesting to see if this passes.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/01/nyregion/01superintendent.html?_r=1&hpw[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/01/nyregion/01superintendent.html?_r=1&hpw</a></p>
<p>About time …</p>