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<p>Another one (1998):</p>
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<p>More recent (2009)</p>
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<p>The last paragraph is the important one.</p>
<p>These kinds of reports are not hard to find. Some are local (like the first one), some are in more national papers (like the last one, from the NYTimes).</p>
<p>Another teacher here who will never get near $100,000. I do enjoy good health benefits for which I contribute 15%. I will be able to retire at age 62 with a pension of about 40% of my final salary. I work very hard for my salary and can’t remember EVER leaving school at 3:40 PM. In my opinion I earn a good salary and the taxpayers get their money’s worth. </p>
<p>It’s interesting that all the bashing is about the teachers and little is said about the superintendents and assistant superintendents and directors of this and that. Check out their salaries and benefits. </p>
<p>Where I live there is continued negative dialogue surrounding city schools and neighboring suburbs. The truth is many suburban teachers would never last in a city school and those not in education would not even drive through the neighborhoods of the inner city schools.</p>
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<p>Absolutely agree. There is very little check and balance to control the bloated highly paid personnel at this level. Teachers are the face that represents the education industry and many of us who criticize teachers are actually criticizing the inefficiency of this industry. In that way it’s not very different from other well organized industries whose main objective is to increase the amount of money they bleed out of the rest of society. I mean for example the medical industry - hospitals, employees, docs, lawyers, and suppliers who want ever more expansion, the financial industry, the defense industry etc.</p>
<p>As to the other point about taxpayers getting a good deal, if you take the average or typical teacher, it is absolutely untrue. We have teachers in elementary schools who do little more than baby sitting and cost the taxpayers more than a hundred grand in wages and benefits that private schools make do by spending far less than half. At our school, some teachers also work during summer but these people get paid extra for it, while the rest of us including seasonal workers get paid only for the time we actually work. </p>
<p>A key indicator to see if a position is overpaid is to see the number of qualified applicants who apply for an open position - the situation in our state is that are a huge number, especially for openings in the lower grades even at the lower entry level wages. In most jobs in the private sector if you can go to the market and get someone to do a particular job for ten bucks, it’s next to impossible for someone to get twenty five for doing the same thing just because they’ve been there for 30 years. Not true here.</p>
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<p>And how about the consultants? Some of the highest paid people in my district are consultants, and there is very little quantifiable data that supports their worth.</p>
<p>And while I know this is a “teacher bashing” thread, I just have to remind all of you CCers just how much taxpayer $$ is spent on police and firefighters, who in California at least, have the most bloated benefit and wage package of any public employee. They also are paid for EVERY minute that they work over their contract hours (time and a half or even more)! </p>
<p>…sigh, does all this just boil down to we all had a teacher(s) that we didn’t like or our kiddo had a teacher(s) who we felt was unfair to him/her?</p>
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Good point. Also might be worth looking at administrative staff salarys. I happened to catch this on todays news: [Ch</a>. 2 Digs Into APS Principal Salaries - Video - WSB Atlanta](<a href=“http://www.wsbtv.com/video/26994002/index.html]Ch”>http://www.wsbtv.com/video/26994002/index.html) Principals in the Atlanta City Schools make over $200 per student, more than 4X that of neighboring counties.</p>
<p>Andrew Cuomo is one person who has taken a look at school superintendents’ salaries and it made him (feigned) green with envy. Particularly when he looked at one Long Island super whose salary and benefit package topped $500,000 per year. As I recall, some 200 [approx.] NYS superintendents earn more than the Governor, who stands to collect $179,000 this year.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/07/nyregion/07cuomo.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/07/nyregion/07cuomo.html</a></p>
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<p>I disagree. </p>
<p>Plenty has been written about the obscene salaries of superintendents. about the inability of some to pass minimal competency tests in their own districts (think Boston). about the criminal activities of some who confuse the public coffers with their own savings account! </p>
<p>Threads such as this one --and many others before-- are not about bashing teachers. It is about expressing concerns about a system that allows abuses, protects the incompetent and lazy, and fails to reward the hard-working and competent teachers. It is about pointing out the negative impact of leaders (read union leaders) who are solely interested in preserving their political force without much concern for students, teachers, and taxpayers. It is also about expressing a concern that it **will **get worse before it can be better. </p>
<p>When taking a critical look at the “negative” actors, one cannot look past the teachers that are grabbing the headlines in “hard-to-fire” cases. Yet, it is not wonder that the teachers who cannot identify themselves with the ones who accumulate negative reviews or are in the midst of administrative battles … find the subject distasteful.</p>
<p>The reality is that teachers who routinely show up one hour early and leave late, only to go home to prepare the next day or contact parents should NOT fear the elimination of a process that protects the incompetent. They should embrace it, just as they should embrace a system that rewards the dedicated and hard-working teacher, but is a lot less lenient for the ones who are in the profession by mistake or by interest for the benefits. </p>
<p>The botton line is that people should be compensated competitively in a system that is no longer based solely on seniority. While it is indecent to expect teachers to work without compensation for working beyond the reasonable expectations of the job, it is not much better to allow the ones who put in the bare minimum to continue to abuse the protection given by draconian and self-serving agreements. The rubber rooms were only eliminated because the public scrutiny and ridicule became too much to handle, but the closing of the centers do little to nothing to the continuing issues of firing bad apples in a reasonable time. All that was done was to create highly-paid secretarial help. New York still has to deal with more than 1,000 reserve teachers and still has to find a solution to the arbitration process that makes it close to impossible and MEANINGLESS for principals to write negative reports that will not be challenged by all kind of delaying tactics. Los Angeles will still face its “dance of the lemons” to avoid a termination process that costs the public in excess of $500,000 in average, and often includes a less costly payola to depart without more fuss. </p>
<p>And, fwiw, the same criteria should be applied --with a vengeance-- to limit and eradicate the unreasonable perks and senseless salaries that go to the administrators, union officials, and other emplyees and workers who are on a school district payroll.</p>
<p>As I have written often, the current system is one that precludes any meaningful attempt at a series of positive reforms. No matter how would imagine the future system, teachers will remain the glue that keeps it together and working well. Right now, they are every bit the hostage that children and their parents are. </p>
<p>Teachers do deserve better; and so do the next generations!</p>
<p>Interesting question about becoming a teacher. I have been a teacher for 20 years but also worked in the computer industry as a project director for a large private company for 8 years. I managed several teams of engineers designing technical solutions for customers.</p>
<p>working in the private world was much less stressful and clear cut for me. Parent calls, dealing with 150 different personalities a day, and constant meetings are very draining emotionally. Watching kids struggle when you know they have a miserable home life, don’t get much food - other than at school, and dealing with parents in denial is just some of the fun you will get to experience. Watching people ***** about your profession is another high point. You see everyone thinks they are an expert and could do better because they went to a high school once.</p>
<p>On the plus side you see some students really get it and excel. You meet some amazing parents, teachers, and students who help you stay in the game and realize all the other crap is secondary to why you are there.</p>
<p>The demands are much higher than most not in teaching think they are and the rewards will never be in terms of $$.</p>
<p>However teachers deserve to live a middle class life and be able to provide for their families. I doubt some think this is true anymore. Some seem to think we should be paid what general labor is paid and not paid as a professional, comparable to others with similar degrees and expertise.</p>
<p>People like to cherry pick the bad contracts and stats and paint with broad brushes. Yes teacher unions need some major changes and the rules of the game need changed. Students, Teachers, administrators, and parents must be much more accountable for student learning than they are today. That will happen in short order I believe well I hope it will anyway. I know I pay 50% of my retirement conribution just like my matching 401K did in the private world. I believe A pension is a bit nicer than a 401K although if the market and my company is doing well then a 401K will outperform my pension. My district only covers my healthcare and I have to pay quite a bit extra to have my family covered. Those numbers seem to be typical benefits to the teachers I have met, in the Rocky Mountain states anyway, rather than what I hear on TV.</p>
<p>Chase education if you have a passion otherwise stay away. The rewards are there but if you don’t love it they won’t be enough to put up with the mess that is education today. </p>
<p>I believe High Quality teachers are in short supply in this country. Partly due to the low pay. If people truly want to have the very best teaching their kids they will have to pay for it. There is something to the old you get what you pay for saying.</p>
<p>IMHO the only problem is the vast majority of teachers are paid out of public funds. Somehow people get very touchy about public funds. I wish investment bankers were paid out of public funds. I am more sickened by the millions paid to the people who manage my retirement money than the modest salaries paid to teachers in my school district. Makes no difference that teachers are paid out of my tax money while investment bankers are paid out of my retirement money. I believe teachers deliver more value.</p>
<p>Salaries for superintendents and assistant superintendents are sky-high because there’s a shortage of them. These folks have to attend regular meetings late into the night and have to deal with the press and the public and the many minor disasters that crop up all the time that administrators have to deal with.</p>
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<p>In both cases, you can do it yourself.</p>
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<p>You have investment bankers managing your retirement money?</p>
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<p>They are also able to come into work late the next day and shut their door and relax in their offices for a bit. And, they do.</p>
<p>It is a school crisis when a teacher is late to school, because there are 32 kids that need supervision. And once you are there, there is NO down time to do anything but work. (Ever notice that most teacher cc posters post on weekends or in the evening?)</p>
<p>Our superintendent is superb. She does not have a doctorate. She worked her way up from GC. What happened to promote from within? Why is a doctorate needed?</p>
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<p>I don’t know whether they can or not but I do know that salaries are a function of market forces. If teachers want an administrator salary level, then they should work towards becoming an administrator.</p>
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<p>It isn’t something that you have to deal with at 1:00 AM though.</p>
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<p>I think that our assistant superintendent doesn’t have a doctorate though our superintendent does. Many districts like to hire from other districts as they feel like they want someone with experience. There may be other administrators (principals) that don’t want the high-profile job of a superintendent.</p>
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<p>Really? Just like on Wall Street?</p>
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<p>I’ve paid more attention to the difficulties in filling admin positions in school districts than I have with Wall Street salaries. But there are a lot of different positions on Wall St. I’m not an expert at the jobs on Wall St nor in what they pay though I do know a few very bright engineers and engineering students have gone to Wall St. Probably market forces at work again.</p>
<p>If you have evidence to the contrary and expertise into Wall St jobs and salaries, please do spill.</p>
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<p>Do you even know what ATR is an how a teacher gets into the ATR pool and how teachers can come out of the ATR pool. Big hint…The ATR pool has nothing to do with teacher performance. Principals put teachers into the ATR system by excessing them to cut their budget (or if a school is phasing out, everyone will go get excessed, it is just a matter of when) and principals can take teachers out of the ATR system by hiring them.</p>
<p>I will be the first to say that there are some teachers who are gaming the ATR system and do not want to take a permanent job. However, many teachers in ATR are good teacher and principals do not want to eat their salary (mind you they are still being paid by the DOE). Principals used to game the ATR system by placing staff in the ATR. If you did not find another job, you returned to your school and you essentially worked for the same principal that excessed you, but you did not show up on their budget, because you are now being paid by central. </p>
<p>I have 2 friends who are bilingual GC’s one has 25 years in the system (bilingual Chinese), the other has 30 years (bilingual Spanish). They were the 2 highest paid GC on this principal’s staff. Explain how they could both be excessed from a school that consists of 70% bilingual students. The principal said that s/he had chinese and spanish speaking school aids that she could use to translate for the English speaking GCs who had less experience and were lower paid. The next year they returned to the school and the principal used them and did not have to pay for them. They are excellent at their job but no principal is going to pick them up and eat their salary.</p>
<p>What happened this past September was if a principal put a teacher into ATR, the teacher could not return to the school and work for the principal who excessed him/her. The principal could also not hire a replacement for the teacher that they excessed.</p>
<p>The best way to eliminate the ATR pool is not hire any new teachers until you have placed all of the teachers who are currently on your payroll.</p>
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A lot more. What that link doesn’t show is that sanitation workers get paid above the base salary for things like picking up garbage, dumping garbage, plowing snow. You’d think those things would be included in base salary, but you’d be wrong. Sanitation workers at “top pay” make between $90-100,000 plus benefits. Platinum medical for the entire family that we contribute almost nothing to, along with dental and prescription coverage. This is where it’s nuts. My D wants to teach in NYC and has no hope of ever getting a job. But it’s the tax free pensions of the uniformed services that are devastating the city.</p>
<p>As a small business owner with several friends that are teachers in my district, I want to make it clear I am not bashing teachers …I will however say that teachers as well as other state and locally funded government workers just don’t grasp what it is like for people in the private sector , and especially self employed taxpayers to make ends meet.</p>
<p>We have no unions to represent us to bargain on our behalf for wages, health care and pension benefits. </p>
<p>We pay 100% of our health care, and many times don’t even have health insurance at all
We suffer through tough economic times and have to work over 100 hours a week to support our families.</p>
<p>We don’t have * raises * sometimes not even a paycheck. And pension ?? Zero , unless there is anything left of SS when retirement comes at age 67 or higher. We all know that system is projected to be bankrupt </p>
<p>So if you wonder why the parents of the children you teach , and the retirees who don’t want any of their property taxes to increase aren’t always in your corner , this is part of the reason
I live in NJ where we have a governor that has taken on unions, asked ( in my opinion ) very little in terms of concessions from teachers.
The system is bloated. The state cannot afford to pay as much as it has in terms of benefits for state workers.
The garbage collectors in town have better health care than we do…the county sheriff workers complain that they get paid by-monthly and could not tap into their pensions to pay their bills
And we have a lot of friends who have lost their jobs, and cannot pay for COBRA coverage .
People all across the board have had to tighten their belts, go without , trim their budgets .</p>
<p>It is hard for those of us that have to create their own source of income or have lost their income to relate to those who have a guaranteed paycheck and refuse to budge and give anything up without complaining and blaming the governor</p>