Berkeley a feasible option for International Students?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
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<p>Haha, I've been creeping CC for such a long time and now I'm finally posting my FIRST POST! :D</p>

<p>Ok so anyways, I'm posting this because probably like the thousands of international admits into UC Berkeley, I have a problem with the ridiculous oos costs. And since I am international, that means I get NO financial aid. I figured this out AFTER i submitted my application so please don't bash (I got really depressed afterwards as I knew it was the only US school I had chance of getting into).</p>

<p>I'm an international admit from Canada, and the only options I have for universities is UC Berkeley physics and U of T engineering science (got rejected from all ivies+MIT. Although I got accepted to Waterloo Math and Mcgill physical sciences, I'm not that good at math and I don't want to go to Montreal). Basically, I just want to know if I should be even considering Berkeley. I'm heavily leaning U of T right now as it is the much cheaper option, however, U of T engsci is THE most rigorous/competitive (if not even MORE competitive than Berkeley sciences) engineering program in Canada and I feel that I'm going to have a miserable four years of college. People don't sleep there. And I don't even feel confident that I'm going to do well in this program. People battle it out to try to STAY IN the program. I'm looking to go to grad school in physics in the U.S; is Berkeley physics a good program for this goal? I heard that a lot of U of T engsci grads go to prestigious grad schools but I think those are only a select few geniuses who were able to keep a high GPA despite of engsci trying to flunk them out. </p>

<p>Heck, am I even sure that I want to go to grad school? in physics? haha I know I'm sounding really random right now but I'm really confused as I have a million things to consider. </p>

<p>I'm thinking about stuff like, maybe if I go to Berkeley, I can try graduating early to save money, or apply to scholarships, or live outside of campus, etc. Am I being crazy by trying to graduate physics in 3 years? A current internatioanl at Cal who's double majoring in sociology and political science and minoring in something else is graduating in 2.5 years in order to save money. She told me that physics was doable in 3 years?</p>

<p>BTW, our family's pretty poor. But the ironic thing is, my dad is acutally the one who's talking me into going?? He says that he has savings that he's willing to invest in my education, but I feel really guilty about using up his money like that and don't think it's worth it. It's funny because we're BOTH feeling guilty about putting pressure on each other.</p>

<p>Ok so enouhg of my rant. Is Berkeley worth it OOS? What can I get in Berkeley physics department that I can't get at engsci? I know Berkeley is full of so many opportunities and the general quality of student body is much better than that of U of T. I want a good undergrad experience where I get invovlved in research, and be surrounded by nice, motivated people. Please, anyone that knows both institutions well or any CURRENT berkeley international give me advice please!!</p>

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<p>How much would U of T (you mean University of Toronto?) cost versus Berkeley? And how much of the cost would you have to take in loans, if your family is “pretty poor”?</p>

<p>If you are not that good at math, you will likely have a rough time in physics or engineering.</p>

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<p>First off, congrats on getting accepted, that’s the first step. I am in very much the same boat as you. I am completing my undergraduate degree at York University and want to go to graduate school in the states for public policy (overall American schools are better in this field). Berkeley is my top choice and I’m confident that I would have a chance at getting in, but I’m apprehensive about how I would pay for it. Hopefully someone else can be more helpful to both of us in this regard.</p>

<p>I’m applying to Berkeley without any substantial funding of my own. The tough part is that US schools require that you demonstrate you can pay for the first year of study as a condition of admission, and won’t offer any financial aid to international students (except for fellowships, which I know Berkeley makes available to graduate students). Not being allowed to work in the country doesn’t help things much. I don’t know how much money you have at your disposal going into Berkeley, but from what I can tell it comes down to
a question of whether or not you consider an education at Berkeley worth borrowing a whole bucket load of money. </p>

<p>As far as engineering science at U of T is concerned, you are probably correct in your comparison to Berkeley. My friend just graduated engineering at U of T and from what I saw it was 4 years of struggling just to stay in the program. In his first year he was planning on grad school, but those aspirations did not make it past the first semester. On the other hand, now that he’s done he can pretty much write his own ticket as far as job offerings are concerned. I am of the personal opinion that Berkeley has a much better student body and would be a more rewarding academic experience, but that would be regarding my particular field of study. I can’t really speak with authority in comparing U of T and Berkeley engineering and physics programs.</p>

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<p>Yes I mean University of Toronto lol</p>

<p>The costs would be roughly $20000 a year for engineering science at U of T vs $50000 a year for UC Berkeley. If I go to U of T and decide to not even do residence (highly unlikely as my dad wants me out of the house lol), the cost is halfed to $10000 a year. </p>

<p>My dad has stock savings that can cover the costs of all 4 years at Berkeley, so if I were to go I wouldn’t take out loans. But in any case, the OOS costs are ridiculous. </p>

<p>And almostorange, thanks for that description. That is actually EXACTLY what I am afraid will happen to me once I go to Engsci. Right now, I’m so pumped up to make it my goal to go to a good grad school since I got rejected everywhere for undergrad, but I’m afraid that like your friend, my spirits will be crushed very early in the program. But I’m guessing that your friend doesn’t have a problem with finding a good job with just the undergrad degree at Engsci? So I guess that is a plus? lol</p>

<p>And ucbalumnus, by not being “that good at math” I mean that I don’t think I have the raw brainpower to score really well in competitions like the Putnam, for example. I have no idea just how much brainpower it takes to succeed in a program like Engsci or Berkeley physics. I surmise that I will be able to handle them, as doing well in college, in my opinion, has way more to do with work ethic/determination than raw brainpower. For example, anyone can score a 5 on the AP Calc BC with a lot of determination and studying (it’s just understanding/implementing concepts, which is what college requires), but not everyone can score a 150 on the AMC 12 just by studying a lot. That requires raw math brainpower, which I lack. You know what I mean? lol</p>

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<p>To be honest, over the course of my research today I’ve come to the conclusion that a degree at Berkeley simply isn’t worth the 100k price tag. My friend had to work very hard at U of T but got a secure and high paying job within a year (for which he absolutely did not need a masters). The expensive degree at Berkeley would not pay for itself. If your dad’s savings are that substantive put them towards something worthwhile and go to U of T. You’ll end up with the exact same job anyways.</p>

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<p>And having been mathematically-oriented since grade school is incredibly important to success in engsci at U of T.</p>

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<p>We are HUGE Berkeley fans. But I’m also of the opinion that a good education should not, ever, break the bank.</p>

<p>And when it comes to undergraduate degree, this is doubly true.</p>