<p>I heard a rumor that Berkeley Grad schools do not like accepting their own undergrads and its really hard to get into the Berkeley grad schools (HAAS, Engineering, Law, ect) if you go to Berkeley for undergrad.</p>
<p>Is there any validity in this?</p>
<p>Does anyone have any stats?</p>
<p>I know that my uncle has about 6 grad students under him now, and I don't think any of them are from cal. one from UCSB, one from Texas, i dunno what else. I think one of his best undergrads also didn't get into Berk for grad school and is going to UCLA</p>
<p>They usually don't accept their own undergrads into their grad programs because of the inbreeding factor. They don't want you exposed to the same faculty you had during your undergrad.</p>
<p>It can happen-but not necessarily. </p>
<p>"Alejandra Dubcovsky has . . . [landed] the 2005 University Medal, the highest honor for a graduating senior at the University of California, Berkeley."</p>
<p>"Dubcovsky, a history major who will start work on her Ph.D. in history at UC Berkeley in the fall, said winning the medal was "overwhelming."</p>
<p>It may just be that Berkeley doesn't have that many qualified applicants in relation to the total student population relatively. If you go to the grade inflation post I made, you can see that in absolute numbers Yale, Stanford grads outnumbered Berkeley students by anywhere from 2 to 6 times at top law schools. Its only a rough guess but this may be the case for grad school admissions as well. Keep in mind there are also 5 times the students at Berkeley versus an Ivy, so even if Berkeley were to accept the same number of grad students from UCB as someplace like Yale or Stanford, in relative terms it would be much smaller and it would be harder for anyone on campus to know of such a person accepted.</p>
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I heard a rumor that Berkeley Grad schools do not like accepting their own undergrads and its really hard to get into the Berkeley grad schools (HAAS, Engineering, Law, ect) if you go to Berkeley for undergrad.
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<p>This has some truth in certain doctoral programs and is by no means specific to Berkeley. For example, certain departments at Caltech and MIT discourage their own undergrads from coming back their for their PhD. </p>
<p>However, other departments at those same schools are highly accomodative to their own undergrads. For example, by far the most common graduate school that MIT engineering students will matriculate at is MIT itself. </p>
<p>As far as Berkeley itself, I can say that many many Berkeley undergrads end up going to Berkeley for law school and business school. Engineering is very department specific - ChemE does not like its own undergrads, whereas EECS seems to like them.</p>
<p>Uhm, Cal grad here, engineering Bachelors and MBA from Haas, calling on the BS from Polite Antagonis. Cal undergrads are very well represented at Haas, more than any other school, by a wide margin.</p>
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This has some truth in certain doctoral programs and is by no means specific to Berkeley. For example, certain departments at Caltech and MIT discourage their own undergrads from coming back their for their PhD.
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<p>I thought about going to UCLA for comparative politics, and the department said, "You'd be a strong applicant. Don't apply. Academic incest is bad."</p>
<p>That was the end of that.</p>
<p>" Uhm, Cal grad here, engineering Bachelors and MBA from Haas, calling on the BS from Polite Antagonis. Cal undergrads are very well represented at Haas, more than any other school, by a wide margin."</p>
<p>Versus my original post:</p>
<p>"It MAY just be that Berkeley doesn't have that many qualified applicants in relation to the total student population relatively. If you go to the grade inflation post I made, you can see that in absolute numbers Yale, Stanford grads outnumbered Berkeley students by anywhere from 2 to 6 times at top law schools. Its only a rough guess but this may be the case for grad school admissions as well. Keep in mind there are also 5 times the students at Berkeley versus an Ivy, so EVEN if Berkeley were to accept the same number of grad students from UCB as someplace like Yale or Stanford, in relative terms it would be much smaller and it would be harder for anyone on campus to know of such a person accepted."</p>
<p>I guess they never taught you how to read in all your long years at Cal.</p>
<p>Moron.</p>
<p>My feeling is that Cal like the other UC's favors in-state students for admissions, or at the very least there is selection bias in that the most number of people who apply to Cal are from in-state anyways. That is why the UC's overvalue GPA in certain grad/professional school admissions; so that they can favor in-state residents.</p>
<p>It depends on the department. EECS accepts Berkeley graduates at roughly twice the overall rate, although this is probably due to the higher quality of their own graduates and the unspoken quota for U.S. students.</p>
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I guess they never taught you how to read in all your long years at Cal.</p>
<p>Moron.</p>
<p>My feeling is that Cal like the other UC's favors in-state students for admissions, or at the very least there is selection bias in that the most number of people who apply to Cal are from in-state anyways. That is why the UC's overvalue GPA in certain grad/professional school admissions; so that they can favor in-state residents.
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<p>Your "feeling," eh? What about your evidence? (Not that I think any evidence is necessary, though it may actually be.)</p>
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Moron.
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<p>Have a nice day =)</p>
<p>Why do you arguments always suck greatest? The regent's scholar's thing is wasted on california residents, it must be damn easy to get a good gpa here.</p>
<p>I stated my general impression in the first post and continued it in the second. THe impression was from the fact that Boalt and UCSF med school both have a lot of berkeley admits, and since in general Berkeley students have worst LSAT scores on average than the out-of-state students that get in. In fact all the UC schools raise the value of GPA relative to other academic factors in order to ensure de-facto affirmative action (since de jure afirmative action has been banned) and to favor their in-state students.</p>
<p>From that I am postulating that its likely a few grad programs might work the same way too which seems to be the case, especially since we have a haas mba and a regent's scholar here who have revealed their stupidity and lack of reading comprehension. It doesn't take a huge leap of faith to believe california kids are pretty dumb.</p>
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and since in general Berkeley students have worst LSAT scores on average than the out-of-state students that get in.
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<p>Actually, I think sakky showed that Berkeley applicants to Boalt tended to have HIGHER LSAT scores...</p>
<p>For '05 admissions cycle.</p>
<p>Interquartile range for Boalt. 164-169. 3.67-3.90.
(USnews rankings)
Average for berkeley admits for 2005.
166, 3.89.</p>
<p>LSAT score is a little below the median, and GPA is on the high end.</p>
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It doesn't take a huge leap of faith to believe california kids are pretty dumb.
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<p>I'm still very annoyed at your use of the word "dumb." But I won't go into just how relatively "dumb" it is. </p>
<p>As I have stated many times, most Berkeley students (vast majority I would say) come from very very VERY "smart" high schools. (Dozens of these supplying as many as half the freshman class.) You on the other hand seem to think that just because California's OVERALL education system (meaning the one most students attend) is horrible, UC undergrad's (particularly Berkeley) is too. The reality is much different, for THOUGH California K-12 education may "suck" overall, it certainly doesn't suck in regions which send about three thousand freshmen to Berkeley each year (Marin, certain parts of OC, San Diego, certain parts of LA, lower Bay Area, etc.) In fact, it's actually quite strong. So strong that it is these same schools in these same areas which provide HYPSMC huge California numbers. The lower ranking kids (not by much) are the ones who come to Berkeley. </p>
<p>In fact, I distinctly remember reading that Los Angeles Unified School District collectively sends among the smallest percentiles of seniors to Berkeley. Now, it is LAUSD which is the greatest contributor to California's bad educational image, since it's horrible in every sense of the word. But those students are barely represented at Berkeley! Instead, you get the people from PHENOMENAL high schools making up the bulk of the freshman class. Competitive? Definetly. Anti-social? Maybe. But "dumb"? Sorry, no.</p>
<p>There's no resolution to this question, just come to Berkeley listening to the sage advice of Colin Powell:</p>
<p>1) Have a clear strategy for winning.
2) Have a clear exit plan.</p>
<p>You'll be fine at Berkeley either way.</p>
<p>The graduate schools are hard to get into for students from any college. Also, there are probably more Berkeley students applying because they want to stay in the area and the programs are generally fantastic, making it look like Berkeley graduate and professional programs dislike the undergraduates.</p>
<p>Professional schools couldn't care less where the students come from. They just want to fill classes with people they think will graduate and do well. </p>
<p>On the other hand, some PhD programs do care. In this case, your mileage may vary.</p>
<p>I think that sums up the situation.</p>
<p>For PhD programs they certainly care. First, the inbreeding issue is generally frowned upon at any school. But second, and important in my mind, I don't think that Berkeley gives most people the right kind of skills/training to go on to PhD programs. Most people don't do senior theses. Most people don't develop collaborative and semi-peer relations with professors. Most students don't have professors who know them well and can speak for their intellectual -and- personal capacity for advanced research. I think that Berkeley gives its students a very impersonal education with a focus on mastering facts but not challenging broad ideas. Being an academic is about challenging ideas, and from my experience few Berkeley students approach their education in this way.</p>
<p>Perhaps this is related to the fact that many students (that I have come in contact with -- social sciences) aspire to professional school, specifically law school, and are highly focused on translating their undergrad education to a professional school application? I don't necessarily think that this is anyone's -fault-; it's just part of the school.</p>
<p>By the way, the majority of grad students in my department (myself included) came from liberal arts colleges. There are a handful that came from big schools and a sizable minority came from elite private schools (Princeton, Harvard, Stanford, etc.) If you ask most grad students in my department where they would send their kids, most agree that they would never send them to a big university like Berkeley. </p>
<p>My two cents as a person who actually teaches classes here and writes letters of recommendation...</p>
<p>Rinzee,</p>
<p>As someone who's eventually going on to a PhD, I can't help but agree with you on all counts except that in poli sci it seems that most of the top depts. are filled with big school grads. </p>
<p>But top "big" undergrad programs are troublesome for future academes.</p>