<p>Alexandre, </p>
<p>Berkeley has this reputation of being a hardcore-ly "mathematical". At least, that's how we see Berkeley is in the UK and I guess even in other countries. Is there really truth to it? Cause somehow, that puts off some students that are not into math. I think that's NU's advntage over Cal, for those who dread mathematics.</p>
<p>Can't he just apply to both and decided based on where he gets in ?</p>
<p>^^ </p>
<p>He has applied to both schools including to several others that's why he's asking now. Unfortunately, he came to the wrong guy. I really can't be biased here. Honestly, If I would have to make for his decision, I would in no way consider NU. I thought it's not a very competitive school like Berkeley. I know NU is a good school for MBA, but as a whole, I think it's not as good as Berkeley -- academically. But that's me and that's the reason why I can't give him a personal advice. He's actually lurking in this thread and reading your comments.</p>
<p>US education is quite flexible. Yes, some schools are more quantitative than others (see Chicago). But CS, Engineering and Mathematics are quantitative in nature anyway, so your cousin is going to be fed mathematics intrveniously regardless of which school he attends.</p>
<p>^ What I meant to ask is: Is the level of difficulty of Math at Berkeley higher than the one at NU or it’s just the same? I’m talking of academic rigour here.</p>
<p>powergrid1990,</p>
<p>You were really thinking about graduate programs. At the undergrad level, I don't think there's that much difference in rigor. The engineers at NU felt the honors calculus series is tough and these are engineers that have higher average SAT than Berkeley's engineering students on average (maybe not as high as their OOS ones..I am not sure...but as a whole NU's engineers have higher average; even their arts and sciences has an average of 1450 for the freshmen class this fall). Keep in mind only 10% of Berkeley students are from out of state if I am not mistaken.</p>
<p>I don't know what you meant by "not as good academically". NU has students with higher average SAT, is ranked much higher in wsj feeder ranking (including higher percentage that have gone to Harvard law/business schools), has higher percentage of students winning prestigious fellowships like fulbright, and way way higher percentage of athletes that actually graduate (lol!)..etc. I am sure Berkeley has its strength over NU but considering what I just mentioned, shouldn't that put a serious question mark to the "not as good academically" statement? </p>
<p>Also the Industrial Engineering at NU has been ranked anywhere between #2-#7 since 2000, very similar to Berkeley's ranking and they flip-floped, although we are talking about graduate ranking here. 3 of the 20 IE professors at Berkeley did their PhD at Northwestern, more than anywhere else. In fact, Northwestern's PhD program places more grads into professorship than any other top programs despite the fact it has the smallest number of graduates among top programs. Just in case you don't know, although Berkeley is ranked higher in the majority of <em>graduate</em> engineering rankings, it doesn't completely dominate NU. NU is the birthplace of material science and still has a top-ranked department in that discipline. It's biomedical is also ranked higher than Berkeley's. NU's civil and mechanical are also ranked in the top 10, though not in the top-5 like Berkeley's. I have a feeling you don't know much about NU and thought it's mediocre in engineering.</p>
<p>kyledavid,
I didn't say NU has an edge in applied math. I just said they are fundamentally different. Besides, I don't believe you can do IE and applied math that easily at Berkeley, not only because they are in two different schools but also the limited flexibility that I heard Berkeley gives.</p>
<p>This is also for you also, powergrid1990. As I said before, Berkeley applied math resides in the math department in arts and sciences. The approach is a liberal arts one. The research and problems they deal with are primarily different from what one would see at NU. The applied math at NU is separate from the math department and resides in the engineering school. It's essentially an engineering discipline that tackles engineering systems or physical systems. This is where one can't just blindly look at ranking or whatever. It's so different and one shoud pick based on what their interest is. NU's applied math in ranked in the top-15 even though I think it's silly because most applied math resides in math department so it's comparing apples to oranges. </p>
<p>I think whatever edge Berkeley has is neutralized by the flexibility of NU's curriculum. Double-major, even across different schools, is extremely common at NU. He can pick any engineering/social sciences major at NU. He can major in EE/CS, applied math, IE, economics, two of them, three of them, or probably even four of them (never heard of anyone doing 4 but I don't know of any restriction either). Also, NU has special programs like MMSS MMSS</a>, Weinberg College of Arts & Sciences, Northwestern University with impressive internship placement <a href="http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu/students/Internship_Directory.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu/students/Internship_Directory.pdf</a> (this is not even the full list as not every MMSS student posted theirs) and Kellogg undergrad programs and you can be add either or both of them, regradless of what single or double-major you are in <a href="http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/certificate/images/brochure200708.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/certificate/images/brochure200708.pdf</a></p>
<p>I am just laying out all these FYI. I think it's ridiculous to worry about job placement coming out of two prestigious schools and any comparison in that department is splitting hair. Ultimately, if he gets into both, the decision will become much clearer to him once he visits both places.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So, I guess he would like Berkeley than NU for weather. However, weather is not the only factor here. He's also interested in other factors such as employment prospects and connection. He loves doing computer stuff
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Based on this criteria, Berkeley is a better fit.</p>
<p>San Francisco weather > Chicago weather
Silicon Valley IT opportunities > Chicago IT opportunities
Berkeley degree internationally > Northwestern degree internationally
Golden Bears > Mildcats ;)</p>
<p>It's a toss up IMO...You won't go wrong with either. I personally love Chicagoland and the San Fran Bay Area...two of America's finest cities.</p>
<p>Northwestern has an edge for less beauracracy. Once admitted, make a visit to both campuses and your decision will become clearer.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I would in no way consider NU. I thought it's not a very competitive school like Berkeley.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>northwestern is more selective than berkeley</p>
<p>^ For American students, yes...the applicant is international.</p>
<p>
[quote]
^ For American students, yes...the applicant is international.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>still, the student body at northwestern is stronger, so it's actually a "more competitive" school</p>
<p>Don't more students imply more competition?</p>
<p>I'm sure all Berkeley engineering majors can go "toe-to-toe" academically with any Northwestern student.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Don't more students imply more competition?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>i wasn't talking about the competitive aspect at the school, i meant in terms of admission. i have no idea which school is more competitive among classmates, but i would actually prefer being at a place that isn't super cutthroat.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm sure all Berkeley engineering majors can go "toe-to-toe" academically with any Northwestern student.
[/quote]
i didn't say they weren't smart i just said the students at berkeley are statistically weaker than their northwestern peers, it's more competitive to gain admission to northwestern on average. northwestern is a more "competitive" school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
it's more competitive to gain admission to northwestern on average. northwestern is a more "competitive" school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Wrong.</p>
<p>USNWR Selectivity Rank:
Berkeley: 14
Northwestern: 19</p>
<p>Acceptance Rate:
Berkeley: 24%
Northwestern: 30%</p>
<p>Average SAT Scores:
Berkeley: 1200-1450
Northwestern: 1320-1500</p>
<p>the selectivity rank by usnews isn't a credible reference</p>
<p>northwestern has higher SAT scores, by a significant amount actually, and those numbers are no longer accurate, the new SAT average at northwestern university is a 1450 for arts and sciences, 1423 for the school. </p>
<p>acceptance rate has nothing to do with it, that just means more, unqualified people are applying to berkeley because it's a state school</p>
<p>it is more competitive to gain admission to northwestern and that's a fact</p>
<p>but ucbchem is right that it's harder to get in as internationals.</p>
<p>yeah i was never arguing that point, i was just assuaging the poster that northwestern isn't competitively inferior to berkeley and is actually, in fact, superior in that aspect</p>
<p>^ "Competitively inferior" in terms of admissions?</p>
<p>Because you just said, "i have no idea which school is more competitive among classmates, but i would actually prefer being at a place that isn't super cutthroat."</p>
<p>I agree, no one has taken the same undergrad classes at both institutions to draw an accurate conclusion.</p>
<p>UCB's selectivity cannot be compared to that of NU because, well, UCB is a public school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
^ "Competitively inferior" in terms of admissions?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>yeah, northwestern admissions are more selective than berkeley's. berkeley is a state school with an obligation to residents so you really can't compare the two</p>
<p>and yes, i've never taken classes at berkeley, only northwestern, i've heard berkeley engineering is competitive but then again i heard that about engineering here too and it doesn't seem that competitive to me</p>
<p>yeah, what 20legend said</p>