<p>I got into Northwestern and UC Berkeley, and I'm trying to make a choice between them. As a California resident, Berkeley is way less expensive, and I'm being pushed to go there because its caliber is supposedly equal to Northwestern's or better. Also, I can't count how many times I've been warned about weather in Illinois and how I'll get homesick and miss Cali weather. Which one is better?</p>
<p>What will you be studying?</p>
<p>Berkeley is also among S’s choices (STEM focus), and I just saw the following quote in another thread.</p>
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<p>Do folks generally agree with this?</p>
<p>As a parent, I have concerns about the difficulty of getting into classes and unstable funding at Cal. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>I’m looking to study Economics and then go to graduate school for business, and that’s another concern. Northwestern has one of the top Economics programs, but Berkeley has its Haas undergraduate school of business.</p>
<p>Follow the money in this case.</p>
<p>By the way, here’s my take on what you said about their academics:
- Berkeley also has one of the top economics programs. Their rankings are similar in this field; so NU is actually no better in that sense. NU has a phenomenal College Fed Challenge team that won the most national championships if one is interested in participating.
- Haas undergrad biz is nothing special in comparison to Kellogg certificate. Kellogg cert is more unique and advanced (master-level), hence more marketable, but also significantly more rigorous (work).</p>
<p>Anyone have thoughts on the two schools for Chemistry or other science majors ultimately interested in doing research?</p>
<p>I assume for S the cost of both schools will be roughly equivalent.</p>
<p>Who ever said that Berkeley isnt as good as NU has completely ignored Berkeley’s engineering school. (And no, I’m not biased. I got into both too)</p>
<p>My two cents: I agree with Sam Lee. His logic is sound and Berkeley is a GREAT school. You have to consider the culture of the school as well. At Berkeley, you’re going to have a predominantly Asian community compared to NU which will have… less Asians. (To be blunt.)</p>
<p>MomCares,</p>
<p>NU has an elite chemistry department and in any given year, the number of chemistry BA/BS conferred has been between 20-30. So you are talking about a small number of students in one of the best chemistry depts in the world. The research opportunities should be abundant because of the small student:faculty ratio. And the department has the habit of producing winners in external scholarships such as NSF/Goldwater/Cambridge Gates within the university.</p>
<p>@Sam - great information. I’ll pass it along to S. Thanks!!</p>
<p>@thechor346 - Thanks. I also have to assume that Berkeley is much bigger and more impersonal for undergrads than NU, which might mean fewer research opportunities for any given student and maybe less advantages during grad school admissions or employer recruiting, but I guess S will have to research that for himself.</p>
<p>Having studied at both, my sense is that, to be a successful at Cal, a student has to have a more solid idea of what he/she wants to do and be more proactive in seeking out related opportunities. The flip side is that there are plenty of STEM opportunities around to try the field out (lots of start-ups nearby and LBNL next door). The Cal alum network in STEM fields is also pretty phenomenal around the country.</p>
<p>NU also has a fantastic chemistry program. From what I see, students at NU are a little more relaxed and tend to end up at more established companies or in graduate school. Although I do not think funding/course selection at Cal is an issue, NU undergrads seem to have to deal with less bureaucracy and get more academic advising. Though both have top-flight programs, I can easily imagine students with different personalities doing better at one or the other.</p>
<p>Also, in terms of diversity, if you are willing to look beyond race, I would be hard pressed to find a student body that is more diverse than the one at Cal.</p>
<p>Momcares, Berkeley ranks #1 in chemistry. The chemistry department resides in the small College of Chemistry. It’s small and has few undergrads. Plenty of research opportunities with the best chemistry professors in the country. </p>
<p>Funding has not impacted undergraduate education. They’ve added courses and recent passage of Prop 30 stabilized funding. Only 9% of Cal’s budget comes from the state.</p>
<p>Sophergopher, Berkeley in state would be tough to turn down. Getting the same education as NU at around half price is the best decision you can make. Berkeley’s Haas program is among the best in the country.</p>
<p>@UCBChemEGrad - Thanks for the info! Isn’t the ranking you mention based on graduate schools? Any idea how many Chemistry undergrads at Cal? Also - what are typical Chem undergrad class sizes like? Any thoughts about reasons for Cal’s relatively low undergrad 4 year graduation rates? With OOS tuition and no Financial aid, S definitely couldn’t afford a 5th year. With financial aid (haven’t seen NU’s offer yet) NU may be less expensive.</p>
<p>Sophergopher, my D is in a similar situation but we are not in state. The key for my D is where she wants to work and live after graduation. Since she loves the Midwest/Chicago and dislikes the bay area I can imagine which school she is leaning.</p>
<p>By the way, the NU financial package is indeed very disappointing. My D has full ride to another top 20 school in the Midwest. I will let her figure it out!!</p>
<p>^Yea, NU doesn’t give merit aid.</p>
<p>MomCares,</p>
<p>The ranking UCB referred to is graduate ranking.</p>
<p>There is a 2008 thread on the same topic - here in CC. I would suggest to you all check this also out and I an curious if things have changed during the 5 years that has passed</p>
<p>Momcares, yes, the ranking is for grad school but no undergrad chemistry ranking exists, so you have to use that as a proxy. </p>
<p>Your S will still be learning from the professors and grad students that make Berkeley’s College of Chemistry #1. </p>
<p>Chemistry (and chemical engineering) majors have their own general chemistry and organic chemistry series…it’s more intensive and analytical. There are around 100 students due to chemical engineering majors in the lower division chemistry courses. Around 30-60 in the upper division. </p>
<p>You can find out more by looking at the College of Chemistry website.</p>
<p>Regarding the lower graduation rates at Cal, you need to keep in mind that it is a large school and enrolls poorer students…many work part time to pay for college.</p>
<p>I haven’t heard or experienced any problems with College of Chemistry students getting required courses. Berkeley is also generous with AP credits…waiving some requirements depending on scores.</p>
<p>@UCBChemEGrad - Thanks!</p>
<p>Just got S’s offer from NU and they have been FAR more generous than Berkeley. Guess having two kids in college can have its advantages, as does a school with a huge per-capita endowment. :)</p>
<p>It will be fun to see what S decides (he has several other strong options on the table as well)!</p>