Whether your D should be considering a business or an economics degree as an undergraduate really depends on what she wants to do.
The most selective universities in the nation mostly do not offer business as an undergraduate major (notably most of the Ivies and the U of C, MIT). They offer Economics. Investment banks recruit heavily from these schools.
Yes, Cal and Dartmouth are very different, but there is no reason your D could not be interested in both. IMHO, a lot of people get hung up on the idea that a student can only be happy in one type of environment.
Both schools are excellent. Dartmouth is more focused on undergraduate education. There are some computer science classes at Cal that reportedly have 3K students and big screens in giant lecture halls. That is impossible at Dartmouth. (Of course, depending on the department and the degree of specialization, Cal has lots of small classes, I’m sure.)
I’m wondering which school you are calling hardcore. I know for a fact that Dartmouth is not, and I have the impression that Cal isn’t either.
This, however, is an excellent matter and the crux of the matter.
BTW, I am assuming based on past posts that your D is an URM, which would help with D admissions. I am also assuming that you would expect to get need-based FA from D, at least. If either is incorrect, plese forgive me.
Lastly, Dartmouth isn’t fake. It is a classic New England college campus and Hanover is a really nice New England town. Yes, it is beautiful. That’s what a lot of places look like here. But I can’t blame your D. I look at Stanford and think “Taco Bell.”
B-)
Cornell is my alma mater and my daughter’s alma mater. I love the place, but it’s big and can be intimidating (though it’s not disorganized). The OP’s daughter might have the same negative reaction to Cornell as she had to UC Berkeley, and at Cornell, she also wouldn’t know anybody.
My impressions of Berkeley from some visits between the '90s and late '00s and having several relatives who are Berkeley alums or current students is that the campus culture isn’t as big on rah-rah Div I sports as what I’ve heard about Dartmouth from many alums ranging from colleagues to close family friends who attended Dartmouth from the '80s till the late '00s or a relative who works as a staff member in one of Dartmouth’s departments.
Dartmouth had a widespread reputation as the “jock Ivy” while I was in HS and undergrad. A reputation every Dartmouth alum I knew confirmed and/or moreso…regards with great alum pride.
Especially one family friend who is at least a second-generation Dartmouth student/alum as his father also attended and regarded with great pride whenever the conversation drifts towards colleges/college experiences.
Granted, a part of this may be due to the large student population difference between the campuses.
If large student population size and “feeling like one is just a number” an issue, there’s a possibility one can encounter the same issue at UPenn-Wharton as there’s multiple undergrad(A & S, Wharton, Nursing, etc) and grad divisions and the total undergrad population is ~10,000…
Some may also find its West Philly location to be an issue as it has had some urban crime issues by reputation among locals and UPenn alums I’ve known though I personally didn’t have any issues on the UPenn campus or being in West Philly even late at night(~midnight) ~ 5 years ago.
Given its relative small size, Dartmouth econ has a surprisingly strong presence in NYC job market. Some may even argue that their placement record is on par with HYP and Wharton. I bet Berkeley business and econ would have a particularly strong presence in CA as well. The location for future career development can be a factor (but of course not the only factor) for deciding which school to apply.
In general, relatively few employers would want to fly 5 hours each way to recruit “on campus” located on the other side of continent.
One of my daughter’s senior-year apartment mates at Cornell got a job with a major tech firm in California through on-campus recruiting. I don’t know how common this is, though. A high percentage of the companies that recruited at Cornell seemed to be from NYC or Boston or were national companies with offices in multiple cities. My daughter got a job with the Washington, DC office of one of those national firms through on-campus recruiting, but the firm was headquartered in Boston
At the MBA level, top companies do indeed recruit all over the country. Same daughter, who was in a highly ranked MBA program in the midwest, interviewed for companies from Seattle to Boston (and ended up somewhere in the middle, though nowhere near the city where she went to business school). For a few months, she seemed to spend most of her life on airplanes.
Dartmouth has a great graduate business school (Tuck) which has a prestigious and popular summer program for interested college students. They do a great job getting their students internships (facilitated by the quarter schedule) so they can come out with real world experience.
The GC is right. Dartmouth is a highly valued and respected Ivy league degree with all the prestige for any career goals. Cal is also well respected, and similarly will open lots of doors. Cal is close to home, but experiencing some chaos and “lost in the crowd” possibilities. Dartmouth is small, facilitating better opportunities to work closely with professors and get more personal attention toward achieving career goals. It is very well funded and meets financial need.
It is all about what type of experience your daughter wants. Don’t worry about Dartmouth’s prestige, but don’t apply to a school ED that your daughter does not love.
Both Dartmouth and Berkeley will give students national mobility. But it is well known among university professional career staffs that there is some degree of geographic concentration, depending on how well known the university is.
There are at least two reasons for this. One is mentioned above about the searching cost on the employer side. The other is that universities tend to have more students from nearby states. They grew up in that region, go to a university in the same region, and then have a higher probability of self-selecting a job in the same region.
One can search Linkedin and observe such pattern. There is also an academic research in which the author embedded in a few top business firms and observed such hiring pattern.
The same geographic pattern also occurs in the MBA market. If my memory serves me correct, about 60% of Stanford MBA graduates stay in the west. As you can image, the majority of Harvard MBA graduates will be staying in the East.
I don’t believe Dartmouth offers an undergrad business major.
These are both excellent colleges. I guess my question…if she likes the smallness of Dartmouth, why isn’t she looking at other colleges that are smaller as top choices.
What would be her reason for applying ED to Dartmouth, since you post suggests some ambivalence about this school?
There are plenty of other competitive colleges (which we know from other threads is your hunt) that might be better choices for her,
What made her look at Dartmouth in the first place? It is a radically different school than CAL.
Related to the very high fraternity and sorority participation rate at Dartmouth (about half of all undergraduates, but about two thirds of eligible undergraduates since students may not join during frosh year)?
Partially, but also due to the enthusiasm of a critical mass of Dartmouth students to turn out to watch and cheer on their sports teams or and to continue doing so even decades after graduation.
Here is link to Money magazine’s 2016 Best school for undergrad business majors based on quality, affordability, and financial success of graduates early career earnings … oh look, I see UC Berkley is listed at #1
Berkeley & Dartmouth were D’s top two choices. Yes, they are different, but each appealed to her for different reasons. There is no single perfect school, folks.
@runswimyoga, I was a but surprised not to see UCLA while UC Irvine made it. My daughter (a know-it-all HS freshman) thinks she wants to go to UC for undergrad (to save money for grad school) and then do a 3-year MBA/JD at Stanford. She is not so crazy about UCB - she claims it’s too close to home and too many drugs on campus for her liking, but maybe this report might speak to a pragmatic in her
But I can’t blame your D. I look at Stanford and think “Taco Bell.”