Berkeley or Duke for Developmental biology

Graduate School
21

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I though I was absolutely sure when I started, but changed my mind as I was exposed to other things.

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but you are not really sure and you want the chance to "dabble around," well, then it's a harder decision. Berkeley will offer more options for dabbling it would seem.

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On the other hand, because UCB is a larger program it may present more opportunities.

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<p>Well then, it should be settled: go to Berkeley.</p>

<p>I think this thread has exhausted all the major possibilities for consideration:</p>

<p>Berkeley Pros (Duke Cons can hereby be inferred):
Bigger department, more options for changing focus and for experimenting
Environment you like better
Better placement than Duke for an academic career, apparently</p>

<p>Berkeley Cons (Duke Pros can hereby be inferred):
Financial deal equal on paper, but in real terms not as good as Duke's
Less one-on-one faculty connectedness potentially</p>

<p>Other considerations:</p>

<p>Perhaps better industry linkages, opportunities in the biotech center Bay Area
Perhaps with smaller department more collegiality at Duke (ask if this is the case)
Etc</p>

<p>Time to decide.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>David McClay << Mike Levine.</p>

<p>Keep it simple. Simple van Dimple.</p>

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<p>Can I add something, as a grumpy second-year? I'll try not to be too grumpy.</p>

<p>It's understandable that you're not sure precisely what you want to do coming straight out of undergrad. But at some point, you're going to have to pick, and from personal experience, I can say that it's not likely that you'll be any more decided when school starts and you have to pick your first rotation. No matter how many awesome faculty members there are in a program, you can only pick a handful to rotate with. In some ways, picking a program with a huge number of interesting labs presents a problem for actually picking a thesis lab, since there's no way you can actually investigate every single lab that interests you.</p>

<p>At some point, you have to close your eyes and pick a field so you can close your eyes and pick a lab. That point might as well be now.</p>

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<p>snowcapk - In what way is David McClay inferior to Mike Levine. I found Levine to be a pompous a__ and McClay a more approachable and helpful person. Also, if you are correct, I would think that Levine's lab would be in high demand and difficult to get into.</p>

<p>RealityCheck2 - I appreciate your input and recognize your frustration with this thread. Thank you.</p>

<p>mtlve - What other schools are you considering?</p>

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<p>This is to say nothing of his research, snowpack, but if you want to be a happy person, you can not work in Levine's lab. </p>

<p>He is a great funny guy to talk to... but he abuses his graduate student's like no other. 12 hour days are mandatory, and 7-day weeks and berations are extremely common. Tons of people have to switch advisors after starting with Levine. People from all different schools have heard the legends of Mike Levine - after all, he once set one of his postdocs on fire.</p>

<p>Hopefully he's not one of the big draws to Berkeley. :)</p>

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RealityCheck2 - I appreciate your input and recognize your frustration with this thread. Thank you.

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<p>Sorry if I came across as impatient, Mac. It actually really doesn't have a lot to do with you. I spent a long time with someone on CC providing advice first through the open forum and then through private messages. It got to the point that I was repeating the same things over and over, and I realized the problem was not lack of information but was really annoying indecision that fed really ridiculous lines of questioning (not literally, but almost like "but do you think I can find the flavor coffee I'll want in Ann Arbor if I do decide to get my doctorate there"). Actually, specific feedback about things like Mike Levine's apparent craziness can be helpful. There are still things you can learn from other posters who may add more. </p>

<p>I retract what I said and I apologize. Though it's true: at a certain point you gotta stop being Hamlet ;).</p>

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People from all different schools have heard the legends of Mike Levine - after all, he once set one of his postdocs on fire.

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<p>Oh c'mon: don't tease: what's the full story? I know nothing about this.</p>

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<p>I have also been notified that I was admiited to Michigan and Carnagie Mellon. But I think Duke and UCB are still my top choices.</p>

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<p>mac-</p>

<p>Just curious, when did you interview at CMU and when/how did they let you know you were accepted?</p>

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<p>hi guys. im wondering if any of u went to the duke CMB recruitment weekend on Feb22-24? have u heard back from then yet? i havent... and feeling anxious now... i wish i cared less, but i really loved the duke program and the campus... </p>

<p>do u think it's a good idea to email/call them?</p>

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<p>Silverlil,</p>

<p>Hi. I just got an acceptance to Duke's CMB program last week, but I interviewed during the first weekend. I emailed them ~2weeks ago and they said they were going to invite enough people to fill up the class last week, but something could have happened since then. Even if they filled up most of their class, I am sure people will decline their offer so I would not give up hope. </p>

<p>If you have not sent the direct a letter of interest, I would send this and ask when you expect to hear. If you have sent one, I would just drop a couple of lines to the administrator. I hope you get some good news from them soon. Hopefully will be classmates next year! </p>

<p>mtlve</p>

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<p>thx mtlve for your info. </p>

<p>this is indeed very strange, bcoz they told us that they will take all the interviewees unless sth is significantly wrong... but apparently too many people accepted their offers last year and so they could be cutting down the numbers this year. </p>

<p>but i will contact them like u said. again thx for the advice.</p>

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<p>I interviewed at Duke and CMU first and 3rd week in Feb respectively. Find out about acceptance with in a week from interview. First via email and then via snail mail.</p>

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<p>How many PH.D. students graduate per year from the Cell biology program at Berkeley? Duke?</p>

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<p>I do not know if this helps. but the Dev. Biology program at Duke is ranked higher than Berkeley (5 vs.21!!)</p>

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<p>ovaldia: Where did you find the Dev Bio rankings? I have been looking all over for them.</p>

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<p>I used the Cell and molecular biology ranks</p>

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<p>Best National Universities
1. Princeton University (NJ)
2. Harvard University (MA)
3. Yale University (CT)
4. Stanford University (CA)
5. California Institute of Technology
University of Pennsylvania
7. Massachusetts Inst. Of Technology
8. Duke University (NC)
9. Columbia University (NY)
University of Chicago
11. Dartmouth College (NH)
12. Cornell University (NY)
Washington University in St. Louis
14. Brown University (RI)
Johns Hopkins University (MD)
Northwestern University (IL)
17. Emory University (GA)
Rice University (TX)
19. University of Notre Dame (IN)
Vanderbilt University (TN)
21. University of California – Berkeley
22. Carnegie Mellon University (PA)
23. Georgetown University (DC)
University of Virginia
25. University of California – Los Angeles
University of Michigan – Ann Arbor</p>

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<p>Ah, thanks. I remember once seeing rankings specifically for dev bio but I cannot find those again. I am not sure how that would really even work seeing as most places do not have a separate Developmental program, but include it with Cell and Molec. Duke does have a Dev Bio Training Program though, and I think that list had it as #2 for specifically Dev.</p>

<p>Does anyone have this?</p>

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<p>I have not made my final decision but I am leaning towards Duke. I hear from two Berkeley PhD students that the profs do not care whether the students succeed and also that the politics and red tape at the school are a mess. I want to go to a place where I am challenged, learn and the prof have a real interest in seeing me succeed. I do not need to have my hand held or spoon feed, but I want my profs to have a vested interest in my success.</p>

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<p>hey ovaldia (and people deciding, if anyone still is!),</p>

<p>Are you sure those aren't the rankings for "Best University" generally in all fields, rather than just specifically cell/mol bio? Because they match those rankings perfectly, and I really doubt that Princeton outranks Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Rockefeller and UCSF in cell and molecular biology.</p>

<p>Looking at the NRC rankings from 1997, which are generally considered more rigorous than US News, you see the Duke/Berkeley are pretty much equal in cell and development.</p>

<p>1 MIT<br>
2 Rockefeller<br>
3 Cal San Francisco<br>
4 Cal Tech<br>
5 Harvard<br>
6 Stanford<br>
7 Cal San Diego<br>
8 Washington<br>
9 Washington (St. Louis)<br>
10 Yale<br>
11 Princeton<br>
12 Cal Berkeley<br>
13 Duke<br>
14 Chicago</p>

<p>Granted, those are ten years old. But the most recent 2009 US News rankings show that Berkeley is up there with the giants in most fields:</p>

<p>Biological Sciences: Molecular
1 Harvard University
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
3 Stanford University
4 University of California--San Francisco
5 University of California--Berkeley
6 California Institute of Technology
6 Rockefeller University
8 Johns Hopkins University</p>

<p>Biological Sciences: Cell Bio
1 Harvard University
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
3 Stanford University
4 University of California--San Francisco
5 University of California--Berkeley
5 Yale University
7 Johns Hopkins University
7 Rockefeller University</p>

<p>Biological Sciences: Genetics/Genomics/Bioinformatics
1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
1 Stanford University
3 Harvard University
4 University of California--Berkeley
4 Washington University in St. Louis
6 California Institute of Technology
6 University of California--San Francisco
8 Johns Hopkins University</p>

<p>I think the genome sciences ranking is the most important - if you are into development, it's vital that you get good training or at least understanding of basic genomics. I just got back from the Fly Meeting, and all ANY of the major development people talked about was genome-wide mapping of cis-elements, comparative genomics and development, and ChIP-chips ahoy.</p>