<p>Cornell prides itself in a being an "undergraduate research" university. Research positions are pretty easy to obtain if you have the persistence to find one.</p>
<p>ohp= overnight host program. gave me the opportunity to spend a few nights as a cal student.</p>
<p>How hard is it to get into engineering research at Berkeley and Cornell. Is it easier or harder than other fields.</p>
<p>A few things...</p>
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... but cornell could probably give you more help on your grad/med apps...
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<p>How so? It does not have a more prestigious name in pre-med. Also, don't forget a Berkeley degree in Math/Physics is very highly regarded for medical school admissions.</p>
<p>Perhaps you may be refering to it being easier to obtain higher grades to get to medical school... in which case I would advise you to realize that Cornell is a little bit smaller but roughly the same size as Berkeley--and it prides itself in being the "easiest Ivy to get in, hardest Ivy to get out."</p>
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Cornell prides itself in a being an "undergraduate research" university. Research positions are pretty easy to obtain if you have the persistence to find one.
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<p>If you want purely research opportunities, vanilla or not, I suppose Cornell will give you more opportunities. Personally, though, I couldn't find that enough reason to go to Cornell, even though it offered me as a Tanner Dean Scholar the chance to apply for a 2,500 research grant for my own research.
Meaningful research that makes a large impact is more likely to occur at Berkeley--after all, there's a reason why it has made for itself such a prestigious name in research. Even if I could conduct my own research, the chances of being significant in any sense of the word would be minimal.</p>
<p>Overall, however, the two schools are roughly similar academically, with Berkeley having broader strengths is a variety of fields, but with Cornell having a far stronger alumni network. </p>
<p>There are benefits to either one, and it probably does depend on your own personal feel to both along with personal circumstance. </p>
<p>For me, since I was in-state and got a Regent's Scholar at Berkeley, there wasn't enough reason to go to Cornell which was roughly comparable but with a prestigious Tanner Dean Scholar that gave a whopping $600 a year.</p>
<p>Allorion, when you say that it is the hardest ivy to get out, are you saying that it is really hard to get good grades?</p>
<p>ALso, i heard that a few B's in college will kill you when applying to medical schools.. so is berkeley or cornell a school that is really stingy with grades ?</p>
<p>one thing I also heard was that there are not many medical schools around cornell, which would be a disadvantage to premed students at cornell(?)</p>
<p>allorion,
by "help" i mean the counseling and help you would get on your apps that private schools are much better at than public schools.. basically "packaging." ivies/privates have an upper hand on this over cal that can't be denied. (for example, at jhu which has arguably the best premed program in the country, has a committee that writes amazing reccs that do go a long way for students who have been successful.) not to say that if you exceed at cal, you can't go where you want, which would definitely be untrue. a matter of concern is the underrepresentation of cal students at the elite grad schools, when i'm sure you and i can both agree that the top students at berkeley are of the same quality as the top students anywhere.</p>
<p>name doesn't matter that much for undergrad for med or not (unless you aren't planning to go on to grad school)- what matters is GPA and MCATS. the prestige i'm referring to is different, a more "colloquial" type if you will.
academic quality also depends on your major. obviously EECS at berkeley is superb. but- it depends on the person. i know someone who chose princeton over berkeley for engineering. berkeley's engineering program (#2? #3?) is better, but i rather think his choice (#12) would be understandable. if you're just considering premed, however, it's a different story, because then aspects like research opportunities, counseling/advising, grade inflation/deflation, etc. all have a significant impact. berkeley is amazing for research.. and amazing for GRAD school. true, the projects at berkeley are probably going to be more significant than those at cornell.. but what are your chances at getting in on them? </p>
<p>both schools are extremely competitive in terms of academics/grades.. cornell has a very high suicide rate for a reason and cal has crazy competition. if you want to get into a top-tier med school you're going to need around a 3.7+ (the berkeley career center stats show that the avg. gpa of successful davis (#48) applicants is a 3.7). if you want the very best, you'll need a 3.8, 3.9, 4.0.... so no, you wouldn't be able to get very many b's.</p>
<p>Certainly top privates can better package applicants for professional and graduate school, and more aptly award them with higher grade inflation and letters of rec with more purple prose, but your JHU board is a poor example of helping students as it excludes many, threatening to write poor recs for students it does not want applying. The underrepresentation of Cal students at top programs (and this is relative to other top schools, as some schools send few to no students) is probably due to many factors, such as many CA students preferring to go to top (mostly) Norhthesatern privates, various LACs or tech schools, perhaps different goals of students. Cal sends many students to elite graduate schools, just at a lower percentage than the strong LACs and top private unicersities.</p>
<p>I agree with you, Berkeley is amazing for graduate school, and to a lesser extent undergrad, but could not many schools be described this way? Cornell is a research institution, and primarily a graduate one, too. Harvard comes to mind as well. Lets not characterize Berkeley too differently in this regard from other fairly large research institutions whose main concern is often graduate programs (and professional programs). The best projects at top schools with graduate students usually go to graduate students, but like Cornell, some Berkeley undergrads will be able to do substantial research, and many will get lab experience if they seek it- how much compared to Cornell per science student, or something- is that measureable? Cornell might win here, who knows. What are the chances of some Cornell student getting the amazing research at Cornell?</p>
<p>Hardest Ivy to get out of, yes, due to grades. Cornell's philosophy is similar to that of Berkeley's--admit many potentially excelling students and use difficult classes to cull out the less apt.</p>
<p>As for the name and med school admits, yes grades and MCAT score are both far more important, however, I was merely pointing out that a Berkeley student's grades would not be worth any less than a Cornell student's. Also, there good admittance to med school for the Math/Physics majors for those who try for it, which is at least partially related to high MCATs.</p>
<p>Cornell is a bad example for Ivy League counseling though. As said, Cornell is large and its counseling resources is no more than Berkeley has--in fact, somewhat less considering the bureaucracy involved in their subdivided schools.
The other Ivys and most private schools--certainly. But not Cornell, which is the case on hand. I looked extensively into this, since I was stuck with the same decision a while back.</p>
<p>It's far from impossible to get research opportunities at Berkeley, especially if you get to know the professor running the research pretty well.
The thing about Cornell, as said though, is that it will allow you more research opportunity, but it's more clarification research or other minor subjects and topics. If you got a ______ scholar, like Tradition, or Tanner Dean, or whatever depending on college in Cornell, they'll basically concoct one for you (or rather, let you figure one out and get a faculty sponsor). If you are fine with that, I suppose. However, personally I'd rather get involved with something meaningful and that I could be passionate about, especially to get over the parts that are inevitably exceedingly boring.</p>
<p>As said though, it's much the same either way. There isn't a significant enough difference leaning either way to totally decide you purely on academics. Berkeley is arguably the stronger academic institution of the two due to its faculty, but the subject matter is inevitably much the same at both. If money isn't a factor, it probably falls to location and feel of the two schools.</p>
<p>i don't know much about research opportunities at cornell, though earlier someone said it was relatively easier. however- i think that the discrepancy between the undergraduate and graduate programs at cal is significantly greater than that, if any, at harvard, or the other elite private universities.</p>
<p>well, the acceptance rate at jhu is over 90%, and i would assume that would include everyone who applies to med school, even those that are discouraged, and i could say much more about jhu's program, which isn't just limited to the board. of course, the high numbers at jhu and other privates are influenced due to greater selectivity in admissions and people unable to succeed that changed majors/curriculum. BUT- a problem with cal that affects the undergrad experience is that if you're doing poorly, you can't transfer out. so if you were getting a 2.5 as a MCB or EECS major, you'd be stuck there, while at other privates, changing your major would be a matter of minutes.</p>
<p>Indeed, the changing of majors is something that Cornell has over Berkeley.</p>
<p>However, considering the context of premed... if you do that poorly, you are no longer a premed student.
There are flaws in Berkeley's system for students that are unprepared for the rigor of the courseload, however students strong enough to serious consider a career in medicine should do just fine.</p>
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well, the acceptance rate at jhu is over 90%, and i would assume that would include everyone who applies to med school, even those that are discouraged.
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<p>No it doesn't. Those who are discouraged don't apply. That's why the number is inflated. JHU could still have an edge over Berkeley but how much is debatable...</p>
<p>"of course, the high numbers at jhu and other privates are influenced due to greater selectivity in admissions and people unable to succeed that changed majors/curriculum."</p>
<p>students who do poorly academically at EITHER institution would not have good chances at med school. for students who do have a chance, however, it's a different story, where at JHU and other elite privates they would have an edge due to their advising and packaging. i do think it's a problem that how well you (or rather, your school) can sell yourself would have that kind of impact, but that's a separate issue.</p>
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However- I think that the discrepancy between the undergraduate and graduate programs at cal is significantly greater than that, if any, at Harvard, or the other elite private universities.
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<p>Perhaps, but why do you think that? And do you think that Cornell's grad and undergrad are so tied together, to a degree tenths of percents more than Berkeley's?</p>
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well, the acceptance rate at jhu is over 90%, and I would assume that would include everyone who applies to med school, even those that are discouraged, and i could say much more about jhu's program, which isn't just limited to the board. of course, the high numbers at jhu and other privates are influenced due to greater selectivity in admissions and people unable to succeed that changed majors/curriculum. BUT- a problem with cal that affects the undergrad experience is that if you're doing poorly, you can't transfer out. so if you were getting a 2.5 as a MCB or EECS major, you'd be stuck there, while at other privates, changing your major would be a matter of minutes.
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<p>This last paragraph is not true- one is not "stuck" in a major in the way you describe. And the "90%" applies to those that apply, which excludes the many weeded out, or who decide not to after facing the board and their stance. And I thought it was higher than 90%.</p>
<p>cornell and berkeley undergrad are very comparable. again, i'd say cornell would be more helpful in terms of the greater attention it would pay. not everyone needs that... but some do.</p>
<p>i believe your initial example was harvard.</p>
<p>i thought there are requirements to be met if you want to switch departments? in which case, it would be difficult for someone dooing poorly in EECS, for example, to transfer out to a department where they would be able to perform better.</p>
<p>I have heard many times at Cornell information sessions that undergraduate research is very common.</p>
<p>Yes, eecs is one example that works, but MCB, the most common biology and pre-med major, is most certainly not one. Basically, there's a very small number of things in which this example is applicable, such as those who do really poorly in engineering.</p>
<p>go to the school you think would suit your lifestyle (for four years) more.</p>