<p>I have no idea what i would choose. I love Cal but Brown is ivy league and would likely be cheaper (due to more generous FA). I get in-state but i'm supposed to pay 13k for cal. Also, i hope to do pre-med but the Rhetoric department at cal seems phenomenal and i was thinking of doing that major along with the pre-med courses. Anyone have any advice?</p>
<p>Don’t even consider the fact that Brown is an Ivy. Berkeley is more well-known and is higher ranked than Brown in basically every department. </p>
<p>It’s really easy to double major in Berkeley, especially if both majors are within the College of Letters and Sciences. I double majored in Econ and MCB and could have still graduated a semester early if I wanted.</p>
<p>And if you love Cal now, you’re going to love it so much more when you actually get here. It’s a pretty amazing school, I’m going to miss it next year.</p>
<p>Brown, duh</p>
<p>Well, I have to say the one thing that makes me worry about recommending Berkeley is that you’re doing premed. Brown’s program is very flexible for undergrad, as far as I understand, and maybe that could help your GPA, which is pretty important for medical school admissions.</p>
<p>Let’s be honest: 90% or more of undergrads will probably never understand why their department is ranked higher than another one. Of the remaining 10%, only marginally many will benefit in any way from that ranking. </p>
<p>The real thing is you should be careful to look at whether the schools are quite well regarded {not based on any one ranking system} in the disciplines which you are considering.</p>
<p>A lot of departmental ratings have to do with the number of accomplished faculty by various measures which may or may not affect you – a lot of these measures might not have to do with the “quality of research” – frankly, most people can’t even understand the research being done to any slight degree. And it’s nice knowing you have a fields medalist around, but a good majority of the tenured faculty may not understand the fields medalist’s contribution to a reasonable degree, even if they’re more aware of it than the rest of us.</p>
<p>It depends on your personality, but I definitely like Brown better. Berkeley scares me for some reason, which is why I’m likely no attending.</p>
<p>Brown has more grade inflation than Berkeley, according to [url=<a href=“http://www.gradeinflation.com%5DNational”>http://www.gradeinflation.com]National</a> Trends in Grade Inflation, American Colleges and Universities<a href=“look%20at%20the%20bottom%20for%20the%20list%20of%20schools”>/url</a>. This may be helpful when applying to medical school, since GPA along with MCAT is an important first cut for medical school admissions. Also, the absence of any breadth requirements at Brown may make it easier to avoid non-pre-med non-major courses that can be harmful to your GPA.</p>
<p>obviously brown…</p>
<p>Yeah…as much as I’m for Berkeley…as a pre-med student you need gpa and test scores…higher chance of getting a good gpa in Brown.</p>
<p>If you’re interested in Rhetoric as a major, I would assume you have a liberal approach to your education in terms of exploring different subjects and fields of study and if you’re paying less to go to Brown, I would say it’s a no brainer. I would choose a better environment over departmental rankings for undergraduate any day of the week if the universities are comparable.</p>
<p>Thanks guys. The money is basically the same for both schools.</p>
<p>I just feel like i can’t pass either up. Cal has been my dream forever and Brown seems amazing!</p>
<p>Can any pre-med students at cal comment on the nature of the program? Are there enough research opportunities? Is the competition too cutthroat?</p>
<p>Also, Berkeley social life seems much more fun, with Co-op parties and stuff… is that true?</p>
<p>I chose Berkeley over Brown 2 years ago, but that was mainly because I wanted to study engineering. For premed I would probably take Brown, although I do know many premeds at Berkeley with very high GPAs and awesome research positions.</p>
<p>So a lot of people whine about being premed at Berkeley, but there are also a lot of Berkeley grads who end up at great medical schools. I majored in the hardest biology major (MCB), ended up with a 3.8 GPA which was good enough to get me accepted to the PhD program at Harvard Medical School. </p>
<p>Going to Berkeley will mean that you have to work hard and take difficult classes like Organic Chemistry and Molecular Biology/Biochemistry. But if you like the subject, the classes are actually really interesting and well taught. And you learn SO MUCH with each class. And honestly, if you’re not smart enough to survive in these classes, are you really going to be happy in medical school?</p>
<p>So I guess it depends on who you are. Go to Berkeley if:
- If you are actually interested in science and you like biology
- You’re actually smart. Good GPA from good high school, good SAT scores, did well in advanced biology, etc</p>
<p>If you’re unsure about either of these, but you’re still 100% sure you want to be premed → go to Brown</p>
<p>I like science, and ive always done well in/am interested in AP/IB Biology. </p>
<p>It really seems to me that both Brown and Berkeley are more or less the same academically, with Berkeley having higher ranked programs in everything but Brown being higher ranked for undergrad. </p>
<p>Ugh… I’m going crazy! What would you guys choose!?</p>
<p>Flutterfly’s reasoning is flawed, you can still go to Brown even if:</p>
<ul>
<li>If you are actually interested in science and you like biology</li>
<li>You’re actually smart. Good GPA from good high school, good SAT scores, did well in advanced biology, etc</li>
</ul>
<p>It should depend more on whether you like the city, surroundings etc and I don’t see why you should choose not to thrive in a better environment and smaller setting at Brown just because you want to prepare for medical school by going to supposedly more “cutthroat” environment at Berkeley. Use everything to put yourself at an advantageous position. I think you can not go wrong by choosing Brown.</p>
<p>Honestly, I think at this point it should just come down to which campus/environment/atmosphere you prefer. Both are wonderful. Have you visited both campuses? Both schools have significantly different vibes. I know this may seem unhelpful, but it sounds like you love both. Go with your gut! And I’m getting the impression your gut might be Berkeley.</p>
<p>My logic isn’t flawed, it’s just my opinion that Berkeley is a better place in general to study biology. The only reason to choose Brown over Berkeley is if you don’t think you’ll be able to succeed in Berkeley.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If medical school is roughly as competitive and fighting tooth and nail to get a good GPA is as crucial once you’re there, then sure, I’d say no running away from your fate. I’m personally not sure what the deal there is, actually.</p>
<p>Getting accepted to a PhD program (unless maybe MD/PhD, not sure what those expect) seems to be quite a different mindset, particularly in a discipline with lots of potential/expectation for undergraduate research, because assuming you’re smart and can survive the classes doing quite well, it matters more that you develop something you’re interested in, have strong references, produce research, etc. </p>
<p>Now if the other choice offers very little in comparison in biology, then it’s a different story.</p>
<p>Shameless self-bump since I am still indecisive :)</p>
<p>well…which one do YOU like better?</p>
<p>Not because of rank (or maybe because of rank, idk)…but where would you rather go? east coast? west coast? So cal? Nor cal? Weather? People? Campus feel and look? They’re all excellent schools academically, so it’s your call at this point - I’m sure you’ll be happy anywhere as long as you make the decision that you really want - i.e. not based on what other people say.</p>
<p>Berkeley is better than Brown in almost every way. </p>
<p>Don’t worry about the grades. If you’ll do an effort to get high grades you’ll get them. There are way more Berkeley grads at Harvard and JHU med schools (both are in the East Coast) than there are Brown grads, if that matters to you. Of course, Berkeley is way more represented than Brown is at top med schools in the West Coast.</p>