Berkeley VS USC... HELP!

<p>1) you just now provided US News links after I said that you did not provide evidence. Also, you did not provide evidence for every thing you posted. Also, why would you expect me to provide evidence for the way usc provides its GPA scores. It is in their freshman profile. How would you look up their gpa or sat score in the first place without consulting their freshman profile? should i have to provide evidence that USC is located in claifornia?</p>

<p>2) I am not acting as your superior. I am however acting as someone that has something that is involved in this manner. I am a USC student, and unless you're a USC or UC berkeley student or alumnus, you are not relevant in this discussion. You are merely speculating. So, on this particularly issue, I do feel I have some level of authority especially against someone that has not attended one of the two mentioned schools.</p>

<p>3) Remember, I did write just curious. It is something I am interested in. Did you get accepted by UC Berkeley? If so, are you an enrolled student? If so, how many years have you attened?</p>

<p>if you must continue, please stop using simple quotes. use points like you did earlier or ez quotes. It is easier for me at least to read. those quotes were the same as typing in all caps to me</p>

<p>UC Berkeley does offer over 300 degree programs. but the page does say that it that includes majors, minors and graduate programs.</p>

<p>USC has at least 156 majors. I quickly counted them so it is just a rough guess. So unless, you count UC Berkeley's undergrad majors we won't know. It is that hard to blieve that USC could have more majors. USC is constantly improving its academic state and looking at new ways. For example, it just offereed a new video game major. </p>

<p>and I find it funny you don't believe that USC offers more majors because of UC Berkeley's reputation. This whole post you lectured me on proviiding links and facts instead of just throwing things out there. pretty contradictioanry. but that is expected from the patterns of your posts
<a href="http://www.usc.edu/dept/publications/cat2006/undergraduate/degree_programs_list.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usc.edu/dept/publications/cat2006/undergraduate/degree_programs_list.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"That is markable difference. how many would fall into that case? "</p>

<p>I see what you mean now. No, I wasn't saying that they'd all increase 50 points. Think of it like this:</p>

<p>first try: CR 730, M 690, W 690 - total: 2110
second try: CR 620, M 720, W 720 - total: 2060</p>

<p>As you can see, the difference between the two is actually a 50-point decrease. But taking the highest scores of each will give you a total of 2170, which is well above both of the scores. So while the average increase is more like 20-30 points, a person can take it a few times and increase each section 20-30 points, which would come out to a substantial difference. (This is highly mechanical -- just an example.)</p>

<p>"I doubt UC Berkeley has more diverse flora."</p>

<p>I can't believe you're actually trying to argue against me on this. I don't know how Berkeley's and USC's flora stand -- that was the point: that it doesn't matter. I could've used number of pigeons or other mundane statistics. The point was, flora, like geographic diversity within the US, does not make a significant difference. Or at least that's what I see. </p>

<p>"You're showing a severe lack of logic when discounting geography."</p>

<p>A severe lack of logic would be to make a non sequitur when presented with information. In this case, I wasn't presented with information (i.e. how geographic diversity within the US makes a difference), so I wasn't able to make a non sequitur and show my obvious ineptitude in logic and reasoning.</p>

<p>"There are cliques based on geography...."</p>

<p>I'm glad you finally followed up with examples. However, as an added note, I don't find geographic diversity to be of utmost importance (even with your examples in mind), but USC clearly has the advantage. But you also have to consider that Berkeley is a state university, so its job is to serve the people of California, not the country (this is not an excuse for its lack of diversity but rather a reason for it). At any rate, considering the size of California, that's enough geographic diversity. =p</p>

<p>"how does UC B have over 300 degree programs for its undergrads?"</p>

<p>I never specified whether it was for undergrads or not; I simply said, Berkeley offers 300 degree programs.</p>

<p>"If USC offers a similiar number of majors and minors, how would UC B have more degree programs."</p>

<p>I never said that, either. I'm simply saying: I do not think USC is more diverse in major choice than Berkeley. They are, at best, equals. You are free to reject and clarify this observation.</p>

<p>"USC offers the same or even more majors."</p>

<p>I'm going to doubt you. Again, 156 is A LOT -- more than Harvard, obviously superior to USC, has. This is an argument from incredulity, obviously, but only because I honestly don't think that USC would have that many majors, but rather that many *degrees<a href="there%20is%20a%20difference">/I</a>.</p>

<p>"and USC does offer over 156 majors."</p>

<p>Source? A link would be preferable.</p>

<p>"Harvard and Stanford are smaller schools so of course it will offer less majors. "
This is an assumption. Smaller schools do tend to have fewer majors, but in the case of the elite universities, it simply means that there are fewer people in each major, not that there are fewer majors.</p>

<p>"the endowment numbers are not important."</p>

<p>Then why have qualms over numbers?</p>

<p>"I wondered how UC B was better at this especially since USC has a bigger endowment."</p>

<p>Although I can't give you specifics on opportunities in respect to the schools, I can tell you this: such a difference in endowment--not a hugely significant endowment difference, like that between Berkeley and Stanford for instance--will not somehow allow USC to offer many more opportunities than Berkeley.</p>

<p>o man.. im still confused :(... mannnn and this summer i did visit both campuses and i loved both because they were so different from each other and i could picture myself in either place. AND i have family and friends in both areas.</p>

<p>ok well ive lived some what all over asia..but am half hawaiian so i love the warm weather.. flip flops chill atmosphere..but then again i love diversity meeting new people and cut throat competition..if that makes sense at all.</p>

<p>hahaha its ok i have a couple more weeks to decide..its probably going to come down to flipping a coin :)</p>

<p>good luck everyone else with their decisions.</p>

<p>"and I find it funny you don't believe that USC offers more majors because of UC Berkeley's reputation"</p>

<p>I included Berkeley's reputation as an afterthought; my point was, Harvard and top privates don't even have that, and if USC did, it would be one of its main selling points.</p>

<p>"pretty contradictioanry."</p>

<p>... if you say so.</p>

<p>"but that is expected from the patterns of your posts"</p>

<p>If there's a discrepancy in my posts, I encourage you to point it out; I'd be glad to clarify.</p>

<p>USC offers so many different majors because that's one way for a school to stand out among a crowd. It's a way of attracting top students away from other schools.</p>

<p>So USC does in fact have lots more majors than Cal. Just take a look sometime at the giant list of USC majors and you'll see that the 156 includes undergrad majors only while Cal's "300" includes graduate programs. If you want to claim that Berkeley offers more majors, then you'll have to offer some proof since that is in fact an objective statement.</p>

<p>US News has a history of making crap statistics up in the rankings. I trust USC's endowment figures.</p>

<p>1) from the SAT scores you listed USC would count your SAT scores 2170, while UC Berkeley would count your score as 2110. that was the point. IT is not whether you can score higher when you retake. It is if it would make a difference in the repoting methods. By the way, you can't just re-take. You can only take it 3 times or they will average all the scores for most schools. on average, everyone will not have a 50 point differnce</p>

<p>2) you provided a dumb hypothetical flower example. If you read by post i wasnt trying to argue it. I just provided a dumb response right back (it is still true though USC invests a huge amount in flowers) and at the end I said that your example was stupid. </p>

<p>3) I grew up in Socal and I love California more than anything. But people from CA isn't enough. Are you college student? maybe you would realize how important it was if you went ot USC and say the geographic diversity and how helpful it really is.</p>

<p>4) stanford only offers 44 majors. I wasn't making an assumption from its small student population. I stated it from real life experience. When applying for schools, I looked at Stanford and I knew they didn't offer that many majors. not saying that it is a bad thing or a good thing. just stating it as a fact.
<a href="http://www.stanford.edu/home/stanford/facts/undergraduate.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.stanford.edu/home/stanford/facts/undergraduate.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>5) USC can offer more opportunities -- endowment being one of the many reasons. I did not soley state that endowment was the sole reason. I said USC offers a ton of programs and markets them as a selling point. I don't know anything about Berkeley. when I was applying to schools, Berkeley didn't sell me on any programs so I don't know what htey offer if they even do. I just know that USC clearly did.</p>

<p>Their majors are sort of illogically specific. They do technically offer more "majors" -- I'll concede that. But look at this:</p>

<p>Civil Engineering (B.S.)
Civil Engineering (Building Science) (B.S.)
Civil Engineering (Environmental Engineering) (B.S.)
Civil Engineering (Structural Engineering) (B.S.)</p>

<p>At Berkeley (and pretty much all the top universities, I think), it's just Civil Engineering. If you want to concentrate in a specific area (structural engineering, for example), you simply arrange your courses that way, but the degree is still just "Civil Engineering." I'm not sure whether the last three there are considered distinctly separate majors, or whether they all are said to be "Civil Engineering" on the diploma, with a certain concentration. At any rate, it'll make USC seem to have even more majors. Additionally, look at this:</p>

<p>Linguistics (B.A.)
Linguistics/East Asian Languages and Cultures (B.A.)
Linguistics/Philosophy (B.A.)
Linguistics/Psychology (B.A.)</p>

<p>So, you can see that more "majors" are added by doubling up on separate majors.</p>

<p>But that is unimportant; as we can see here, the line between what constitutes a major and what doesn't (as according to the very different policies of the two universities) is blurry. I'm sure that anything you'd find at USC, you'd find at Berkeley.</p>

<p>A clearer way of seeing the diversity of offerings is the number of courses. Berkeley offers 7,000.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/02/11_scheduler.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/02/11_scheduler.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This completely outstrips Harvard at 3,500.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/utilities/faq/student_life/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/utilities/faq/student_life/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Where does USC stand? I'm simply pointing to the diversity that Berkeley has; it's difficult to find any university that even matches Berkeley.</p>

<p>is the 7000 for undergrads? and courses can be different. I know acctg at one school can be financial and tax acctg in one semester, while at another it can be two classes.</p>

<p>[edited out for courtesy - Mod JEM]</p>

<p>"on average, everyone will not have a 50 point differnce"</p>

<p>On average, people won't have a 50-point difference in one-sitting scores. But if you take the best scores in different areas, that 50 points is easily made.</p>

<p>"you provided a dumb hypothetical flower example."</p>

<p>That was the point. I was showing to you why I think geographic diversity within the US is a dumb goal. Get the point yet?</p>

<p>"maybe you would realize how important it was if you went ot USC and say the geographic diversity and how helpful it really is."</p>

<p>How helpful is it, exactly? Examples on its effect on you?</p>

<p>"stanford only offers 44 majors."</p>

<p>I see 67, but okay.</p>

<p>"USC can offer more opportunities -- endowment being one of the many reasons."</p>

<p>Well, then I'll just impress upon you that such a difference in endowment will help little in offering more opportunities. Just throwing that out there.</p>

<p>"is the 7000 for undergrads?"</p>

<p>I believe the 7,000 is in general. At any given time during the year, 7,000 courses are offered at Berkeley.</p>

<p>"I know acctg at one school can be financial and tax acctg in one semester, while at another it can be two classes."</p>

<p>You have a point. However, I doubt the rigor of a course at Berkeley is going to be considerably (or even at all) less than at USC. (And in this case, rigor is dependent on the amount of material compacted into one class -- e.g. financial and tax accounting in one class versus two.)</p>

<p>[edited out for courtesy - Mod JEM ]</p>

<p>Ok, so what exactly are the POSITIVES of both USC and UC Berkeley, instead of focusing on the negatives?</p>

<p>I'm considering attending Berkeley; however, I've only so far heard negative things about UC Berkeley on CC. Can anyone give me 10 reasons to why Berkeley is great?</p>

<p>dont go to berkeley. everyone is ugly, and thats not an exaggeration.</p>

<p>its competitive as hell as well (way more than other UCs and USC). </p>

<p>i mean, i hate usc as well, but if you can afford it, its better than berkeley (not academics-wise, but just for the atmosphere).</p>

<p>what field do you want to go into? if you want to do medicine, run away from berkeley immediately.</p>

<p>USC has higher SAT's. There is an especially big gap on the 25th percentile, meaning that there are a lot more low scoring Bears than Trojans. Moreover, USC has been fast rising in selectivity, meaning that there is an upside, as the value of the degree will likely appreciate.</p>

<p>Critical Reading
.........................Cal....USC
25th Percentile....580... 620
75th Percentile... 710... 720</p>

<p>** Math**
.........................Cal....USC
25th Percentile.... 620.... 650
75th Percentile.... 740.... 740</p>

<p>Writing
.........................Cal....USC
25th Percentile.... 590... 640
75th Percentile.... 710... 720</p>

<p>Selectivity is similar, though Berkeley has a higher yield.</p>

<p>..........................................Cal....USC
Percent admitted.................. 24%.... 25%
Percent admitted who enrolled 42%... 35%</p>

<p>USC graduates 66% of its freshmen in four years, whereas Berkeley graduates 61%. 5 and 6 year graduation rates are about the same. This may bespeak to some of the difficulties students at Berkeley reputedly experience getting classes, and getting into majors, etc.</p>

<p>College</a> Navigator - Compare Institutions</p>

<p>heerapatel, did you notice this thread is almost two years old?</p>

<p>They are both great schools. If you are lucky enough to be admitted to both, go visit, attend classes in your major and talk to the students.</p>

<p>You cannot go wrong.</p>

<p>(JW Muller always has great info. Kyledavid80, too.)</p>

<p>JW, aren't your stats/data 2 years old? </p>

<p>And if anything, it clearly shows that SAT scores are not entirely reliable. We all know that it's easier to get into USC than to get into Cal.</p>

<p>^ RML, I do not know that. Do you have any information, links, articles, admission profiles, etc. that support your assertion? As an applicant to both schools last year, I found their admissions %, GPAs and SATs to be very similar.</p>

<p>Berkeley: University</a> of California - Admissions
USC: <a href="http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/private/0910/FreshmanProfile2008v3.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/private/0910/FreshmanProfile2008v3.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>^ SATs almost similar, but for GPA, Cal has higher.
But you also take into account that if you're not in the top 10% in your graduating class in high school, you have very slim chance of getting into Cal. At USC, you maybe be admitted even if you're in the top half as long as your SAT scores are decent.</p>

<p>However, it's not easy to be in the top 10% in your whole high school life.</p>

<p>I'd pick USC. Hotter women, less cut-throat, better weather. Both are pretty good with good reputations.</p>

<p>RML, the GPAs of the two schools are almost identical. USC uses an unweighted GPA, so theirs is 3.8/4.0 for a percent of 95%. Berkeley uses a GPA weighted with up to 4 year-long courses, so theirs is 4.18/4.33 for a percent of 96.5%. </p>

<p>If you are not in the top 10%, you also stand a slim chance of getting into USC. In addition, at USC you must have high SATs. At Cal, approximately 10% of admits score below 500 on each section of the SAT. <a href="http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/pdf/ucb_chart.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/pdf/ucb_chart.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I am not saying that one is easier/harder than the other. I am saying they are very similar in selectivity and you have not supported your assertion that Cal is harder to get in.</p>

<p>Unless you have an Asian fetish, USC.</p>