Some Passhe news…in regards to Lock Haven.
http://www.lockhaven.com/news/local-news/2017/02/the-value-of-an-lhu-education/
My impression is that the vast majority of PA voters are more focused on industrial/mining jobs at the moment, possibly forgetting that those jobs also offer more opportunities to PA kids that have a bachelors degree. I agree that the two year Penn States and Pitt branches are like an expensive community college, although some of them have actually morphed into full four year state u programs (unfortunately also kind of expensive). These would be PSU Behrend, PSU Beaver (for some majors only), Pitt Johnstown (which has granted four year degrees i think since the 1960s). If my child were in the market currently, i would also tend to avoid the smaller PASSHE campuses…easier to close a small remote college than a larger college I think.
@thingamajig - I’ve also been observing the conventional wisdom of PA voters and wondering what the heck is going on. I read the reader comments at the bottom of these stories about the struggles of the PASSHE schools and I’m really disheartened. Most are along the lines of “degrees are overrated” and “liberal claptrap is being taught there; good riddance” and “most people don’t need a college education.” I don’t mean to be political, but when did getting educated become such a partisan issue? It’s horrible. You have a state legislature dominated by one party that seems hellbent on eliminating government support of education, and the voters in the liberal cities and surrounding suburbs, by and large, are well-off enough to get their kids (by dint of merit or full-pay) into OOS or private colleges. and so there isn’t much urgency for them. Those of us elsewhere are not hearing our voices being represented at the state level. Ugh. Such a frustrating time to live here.
@gatormama, well the thing about a college education is that you don’t need it…right up until the moment that you do need it. To stay employed, to advance, to get a raise. and I am talking employment in the gas industry or similar. Too many of us don’t know what we don’t know. I presume you could work for US Steel without a college degree, but when I see US Steel eagerly recruiting at the PA campus where I work, I know that they are definitely very interested in college grads. (edited to add a preposition–posting bloopers today!)
Hard to believe that WV, which is not in great shape financially can do a better job with higher ed than PA? At least that is my impression. Actually the economic plight of WV was highly publicized in Nov and Dec.
@Portercat …yes, my daughter can attend WVU for at least $8 - $10,000 less than Pitt or Penn State. It is maddening.
Another issue is that, by now, people in Pennsylvania have gotten used to the idea it’s ‘normal’ for the flagship to cost 30k. They don’t realize how abnormal it is - or not until their kids want to attend a big university and they realize they have to go out if state AND will get a better deal.
In Virginia, our flagship, UVa ,is at or above $30,000 for most undergraduate programs. Engineering , Commerce, Batten Leadership. and Nursing are particularly high. Engineering is at $34, 584. Even Arts and Sciences is now above 30,000 at $30, 572 estimated cost of attendance. https://sfs.virginia.edu/cost/16-17 W & M is also high. VT is not cheap either but is at least less than UVa and W & M .
@sermon. I think the directional universities in Virginia (JMU, CNU, etc) are comparable in cost in state to PASSHE schools, but are higher quality.
@Portercat, Yes, you pay more in Virginia for the top schools these days, as you do in Pennsylvania. I grew up in Pennsylvania, first person in my family to attend a 4 year college. I only applied to Pitt, Penn State, and IUP back in the day for undergrad. Also, went to grad school at Pitt . Still have family in Pennsylvania so get back for visits. So, interesting to follow along with this. Good luck to those of you deciding on schools!
Also, VA universities provide financial aid for their instate residents (and UVA can provide FA to some OOS students).
The issue with Penn State/Pitt is that they cost a lot AND don’t offer financial aid (at Penn state, almost no merit aid on top of that. The honors college scholarship is $4,500. That’s it.)
JMU, GMU, CNU, UMW… are not comparable in quality to PASSHE. Basically, PASSHE are like Longwood/Radford only, no higher. Also, as far as I can tell, the VA directionals are relatively well-funded (or at least, not funded like in 1992…)
Yes, UVa has need based aid , really no merit. No merit at all for kids even in the honors programs. Many instate kids though at UVa are full pay. And many kids and families are still taking loans or working to meet the full pay EFC or their EFC in general. What a school wants you to pay and what you think you can pay, is often not the same.
Virginia funding for colleges has also decreased significantly.
@MYOS1634 I think we are saying the same thing. VA state directionals are better academically.
On a side note, we had a great visit to West Chester U. today. It was so much more positive than the open house day in the fall. We felt the energy, school spirit and the tour guides were great. So much hustling and bustling on campus, which my D liked. Also, I don’t think we have seen a much better college town borough (we walked there for lunch from campus). A couple of the old ugly buildings are still there on campus, but that’s OK. The new Business building was open and was also really nice. We felt better overall, still some concerns but they are minor for now.
Virginia directionals might seem better but it also might be a matter of “playing the hand you’re dealt with.” Everyone has to deal with the benefits/limitations of their state systems. West Chester sounds great @Portercat ! We have family in Maryland. They were affluent with a high stats kid. She got tons of merit at Maryland, even got a book allowance, despite the fact that they could have paid everything with no problem. Georgia top kids, Florida top kids, seem to have Bright Futures, Hope type scholarships ( maybe that is less now, not sure). Top Virginia kids do not get automatic merit aid to our top schools. Mostly need based. We actually might have been better off in other states for our kids in terms of cost of college. It’s all relative. If you want or need merit, there are schools like Alabama that seem to be meeting that need. And there seem to be OOS schools that Pennsylvania families, if they are not happy with the instate choices , are finding, that help with cost. Good luck!
The highest Bright Futures is worth about $3,000.
Zell Miller is a better deal and explains why top scorers choose to attend UGA. But ask people in Georgia and they’ll bemoan the idiosyncratic way Georgia Tech now chooses its instate students, with the 'overflow ’ sent to Georgia Perimeter Community College till enough current freshmen fail out.
The biggest problem isn’t high stats kids - they will find a place that provides merit for their stats. The biggest problem is kids from families that make 75k and under whose sat isn’t 1450, or kids from all groups with act 22-26. When you can’t afford paying for the full costs of attendance and commuting isn’t possible, what do you do? The role of public universities is to serve all instate students and offering them appropriate institutions that will in turn serve the state well. As far as I know, Virginia not only has a system that’s envied accords the country, but also does well by its middle class and lower income families. Pennsylvania doesn’t. And that’s Pennsylvania 's loss, as it is Pennsylvanians’s.
Many middle class and lower income kids go to community college or commute to a local directional type college if there is one nearby. And although Virginia has a decent system, there is usually no shortage of complaints by taxpayers here as well- too expensive, not enough seats for instate students, etc. No system is perfect.
Yeah, as we have said previously, much of PA has no access to community college within a reasonable driving distance.
And, as mentioned previously, community colleges are mostly meant to be vocational or to articulate with PASSHE schools, NOT with the flagships (it’s possible To go from Cc to flagship but many credits won’t transfer, whereas nova ->GMU transfer for example is pretty seamless) and the PASSHE schools don’t offer all majors. Most conspicuously absent are the strongest STEM majors. A middle income student who wants to study computer science or engineering is completely out of luck, for instance. Until recently, basically all PASSHE schools had, was engineering technology.
@sevmom: West Chester is, by a large margin, the best PASSHE school. It’s currently somewhere between UMW and ODU in terms of student achievement and offerings.
@portercat : glad the visit to West Chester went well. 
Hoping you’re daughter gets excited about it.
The PASSHE schools were pretty popular in the past. Lots of kids went to them, happily, I was in Western Pennsylvania, so lots of kids went to IUP, Slippery Rock, California. Commuting to Pitt was also popular. IUP has Computer Science (BA and BS), and a pre engineering track (complete 2 years at IUP, then complete your degree at Pitt or Penn State).
Yes, @Gatormama , I understand that some parts of Pennsylvania would be more isolated and further away from community colleges. This would be true in many states. Some families would have better access than others. For those with access, there do seem to be some transfer options available to get into things like engineering. The key with CC usually is to work closely with a transfer advisor and making sure you are taking the correct classes that will transfer to a four year college. https://www.ccac.edu/Transfer_Programs_Page.aspx