I agree. The real issue is how the state funded the PSU/Pitt Branches and allowed them to compete for the same students.
Cheney is a HBCU so it will have different significance.
On a related topic, and this may be from left field. Is there a good way to actually rank the PASSHE schools overall? I know we talk a lot about WCU, Bloom and Slippery Rock on this thread, a little more about Cal U, Millersville, Ship and IUP, but MUCH less so about ESU, Kutztown, Edinboro, Cal U, Lock Haven and Mansfield.
Would there be good reasons to consider that last group in the same ball-park as the others? What positives might they bring to the table other than location? Or, for instance, is Kutztown’s corporate/employer reputation that bad? Is Edinboro on the upswing? Thanks.
I went looking for data and ran across this report:
http://www.alleghenyinstitute.org/state-university-system-problems-and-possibilities/
I think it’s been discussed here before.
For the purposes of your question, I pulled out some relevant paragraphs:
Graduation rates are also an issue of possible concern in some of the PASSHE schools. While most of the schools with the notable exception of Cheyney have graduation rates that are in line with or better than the national average rates for both four-year and six-years, the graduation rates at several schools are far higher than are expected based on the academic readiness of enrollees at the schools. Does that mean the schools have far superior instruction compared to other schools across the country or are the curricula and courses not sufficiently rigorous?
Graduation statistics are compiled and produced by College Factual, an organization that tracks the key statistics covering costs, graduation rates, salaries of graduates, average SAT scores of enrollees, student debt, faculty to student ratio, male to female student ratio, fulltime faculty, etc.
Bloomsburg University has a four year graduation rate of 43.3 percent (one of PASSHE’s three highest) and a six year graduation rate of 64.8 percent. College Factual puts the six year figure at 20 percent above their projected graduation rate based on the academic preparedness of enrollees. Other schools with graduation rates much higher than expected include Slippery Rock at 19 percent, California University at 17 percent and Millersville and Mansfield, both over 14 percent. All other PASSHE schools except Cheyney have graduation rates higher than anticipated ranging from 5 percent at West Chester to 11 percent at Kutztown.
College Factual also ranks 94 Pennsylvania colleges and universities offering four year degrees based on heavily weighted factors including student readiness for college as measured by SAT and ACT scores, freshman retention rate, six year graduation rate, student loan default rate and on other factors with lower weights including; faculty salaries, starting salary by major compared to national figure (cost of living adjusted), and the institution’s expenditures per student. Thus, some private schools that do not make data available for all categories of evaluation factors were not included in the 94 ranked schools.
The ranking procedure was not kind to PASSHE schools. West Chester at 32nd was the highest ranked and Cheyney at 91st was the worst. Millersville ranked second best at 49th followed by Slippery Rock at 52nd. Unfortunately, seven schools besides Cheyney ranked 70th or worse with three of those at 80th or lower. Three others were in the range of 54th to 67th.
The average ranking of the 14 universities out of the 94 ranked schools was 67th. To be sure, there is a lot of tough competition with such schools as Penn State main campus at 13th and Pitt main campus at 15th. But to be completely fair, the 26 satellite campuses of Penn State, Pitt and Temple were not ranked. Meanwhile, many prominent private schools such as Gettysburg, Bryn Mawr, Swarthmore, Bucknell and Haverford are ranked very high. That is to be expected perhaps given their cost and ability to be very selective in accepting students. Haverford for example costs almost $50,000 per year and has combined SAT scores on reading and math 400 points above the national average.
@Gatormama. Thank you. This analysis is very informative. Of course, as admissions rates go up to get more kids in the door, graduation rates suffer.
I like Money Magazines ranking as they base it on ROI. From my perspective, this means the most for real world outcomes…and the PASSHE schools are not IVY League but really seem to hold their own. Particularly SRU, Bloom and West Chester. It’s not all about the money in higher education but its all about the money…wink, wink. And yes…Public Higher Education is meant for the masses…rates of all types will suffer…that doesn’t mean it will not be a heck of a bargain in your case…For what it is worth…
Money Magazine’s new college rankings finally get it right for students
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/07/13/money-magazines-new-college-rankings-finally-get-it-right-for-students/?utm_term=.13a702c7f0de
http://time.com/money/best-colleges/rankings/best-colleges/
Slippery Rock # 328
Bloom # 379
West Chester # 397
Shippensburg # 559
Millersville # 618
East Stroudsburg # 632
Kutztown # 640
CALU # 642
Lock haven # 668
Clarion # 675
IUP # 670
Mansfield # 687
Edinboro # 699
Cheney is not ranked
Thanks @bester1. I have seen all of the national publication rankings (US News, Money, Washington Post, Educate to Career, Economist and so on). I was wondering if anyone had seen a PA only ranking, especially within PASSHE?
That being said there is quite a jump between West Chester and Ship. I guess we are on the right track in segmenting WC, Bloom and Slippery Rock above the others.
In looking at the rankings McDaniel caught my eye again.
It’s close to PA and they offer a $25K scholarship for the children of K-12 and cc teachers.
The really great thing about it is that it’s available to transfers. So a kid could go to cc for two years, get a 2.5 gpa, and transfer in and still get the full scholarship. That’s unusual.
State University System: Problems and Possibilities…
http://www.alleghenyinstitute.org/state-university-system-problems-and-possibilities/
“Perhaps a couple of schools could become two year feeder schools for the other four year schools.”
I have a real issue with this statement. Rather than acknowledging that PSU/Pitt have entirely too many branch campuses that are dependent on PA State funding, they recommend changing the truly more affordable 4 year programs at the state schools…not the state related schools. To me, this demonstrates that the research missed the boat in truly identifying what the issues are in Pennsylvania.
@MACmiracle My daughter applied and was offered some decent merit at McDaniel. It is more liberal arts focused, so if that is the goal it is a really good school. I was impressed. Also on Colleges that Change lives list.
The merit for us still had the COA above 30K (~32K, if I remember correctly). We are not teachers though.
So glad to have found this thread! We are PA residents currently in the process of visiting and considering schools for S19. He is interested in English/Writing. Any of the PASSHE school particularly strong in that area?
In our area, a lot of students commute to Millersville and York College so they make up the live-at-home list. Also looking at West Chester, Ship, and Bloom. WCU seems to have the most options for English/Writing.
Welcome @InfiniteWaves! Earlier in the thread we noticed how York is no longer advertising their previous (very generous) merit aid program. Who knows if it still exists and at what capacity. Not sure what to tell you about English/Writing. My guess is a school that is more focused towards the liberal arts.
Yes, welcome @InfiniteWaves. Always nice to have posters interested in this thread.
As @Portercat noted above, York no longer offers their guaranteed merit aid. We were on raise. me site and DD earned the maximum amount of merit aid there, which is $6500. If we lived near by, it would probably have been a contender.
I don’t know too much about the strength of the English/Writing options at any of the 14. DD has now decided to give Computer Science a whirl and I doubt any of them would be on a “list” anywhere. 
howdy, @InfiniteWaves - welcome to our journey, depressing though it sometimes may be. You’ll see a lot of references here to some out of state schools in Ohio and West Virginia; they seem to offer merit to even average kids (well, average in terms of CC levels) that in some cases make them competitive with our pathetically overpriced options in PA.
It is hard @Gatormama not to get discouraged at times. If you look around this site too much, it can get you down.
I especially love. “what school has the best (fill in the blank) program”? Geez, I’m just trying to find some place we can afford that actually “has” the major, forget “best”!
On a happier note, DD received her acceptance from Bloom the other day, came in the big envelope. She was so very excited! Bless her heart, to start out w/ big ambitions and yet be so happy for Bloom. Although, she has admitted that as long as she doesn’t have to live at home, she will be happy no matter where she goes…we’ll see! 
Congrats to your D, @laralei!! That’s wonderful, to have that sitting in your back pocket, no matter what. And she has such a positive (and correct) attitude. College is really what you make of it. You can flame out of Harvard and end up running the world from Bloomsburg. It’s the kid, not the school.
Chad Hurley went to IUP! I had a similar attitude decades ago. I just didn’t want to live at home, go to Pitt, and commute. I was first generation then to go to a 4 year college.
I was clueless. My SAT’s were very much above the average IUP admit student at the time but I had no clue. Good thing. I had a blast there! Just the better fit from my other acceptances -Penn State too overwhelming and Pitt too close to home! Congratulations , @laralei!
@laralei …congrats!!! Bloom is a great choice and a great college experience!
One of the greatest science teachers I know went to IUP, several great music teachers graduated from IUP.
Three children of an acquaintance are getting their bachelor’s degree in three years, and looking at grad school there and elsewhere.
If my D had not gotten her merit scholarship from Pitt, she would most likely have taken her prerequisites at IUP honors college. But since she did, and Pitt offered her conditional acceptance to their pharmacy school if she met a certain GPA, she happily went there.
We visited SRU and IUP. Both seemed like nice schools, but SRU’s music program is much smaller and seems more geared towards music therapy. IUP offers lots of ensembles for a voice major, and he can still be in musicals if he wants.
WCU is supposed to have a great voice program as well, but it is twice as far.
Thanks for warm welcome. And congrats @laralei !
My S19 is our oldest and he does not want to graduate with debt. Between parents and grandparents, we can cover in-state and York College (he would live at home). Could probably stretch to include PSU. We are also looking at private schools with merit options.
He wants to stay within two hours of home. Mansfield checks a lot of boxes due to size and being a public LAC (he wants to study English/Writing). But he thinks it’s too far away. Wondering if I should take him up there for a visit. Anyone have any thoughts to share on Mansfield?
@InfiniteWaves - search this thread for Mansfield talk. There have been enrollment declines and such. The town is truly in the middle of nowhere - we stop there when we go west to Presque Isle on vacation and it’s nice, but tiny.