I have never visited Kutztown but I have a friend that had a daughter attended and the entire family speaks of the beauty of the campus and shared this video with me a few years ago. They always say it is underapprecitaed and an amazing place…
Good for you for delving into the program and course offerings of the PASSE schools!
@laralei I think in many cases people are saying that they want to get down to the level of state schools because they know that there won’t really be a better deal anywhere else, and don’t have the stats to get too much lower in price other than a community college. There are some exceptions, but I think you either need pretty good stats or some other hook to get much lower. Even with the Ohio options mentioned, you need a minimum of slightly above average stats.
Yes, @Portercat . My S19 is a “higher but not highest stat” kid who wants to stay within two hours of home. Because of where we are in PA, this leaves out the Pittsburgh area for us as it is four hours away. And OH. And WV. So for four-year options, PASSHE schools are the most “affordable.”
As such, @laralei , that is the cost benchmark we are looking at when considering private schools and merit. I’d guess that many of us in the central/eastern part of the state are looking at a similar situation if other options are considered too far away.
Darn my kid for literally saying “I really like you guys and don’t want to be too far away.” 
@InfiniteWaves I have a D19 who wants to stay 2 hours from home also and we are just north of Philly. I still have a college hangover from the exhausting process with D17. Good thing D19 only wants to apply to a few schools.
Those interested in Cleveland State or nearby schools…good PR for Cleveland.
Cleveland named to National Geographic Traveler’s 2018 ‘Best of the World’ list (photos)…
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2017/11/cleveland_named_to_national_ge.html
We have looked at most all of the schools mentioned and, Yes, I checked again!!! I just can’t help myself! 
But the awards only come down to PA levels and we would lose the state grant. Also, several don’t offer linguistics or Chinese, so that puts us at PA offering best options. But I can see the appeal, they do look like good options.
@InfiniteWaves D18 would be OK w/ a longer travel time to OH, WVU, etc. but I’m not. DS at Bama and being so far away has limited his time home w/ us. He is doing OK, but I feel badly about it. Parents post how their kids can’t wait to get back to campus, but DS isn’t one of them!
I can’t find the post, but I think someone mentioned about going out of state and teaching degree. ?? That is also a consideration for us. D18 is going w/ Computer Science, but has teaching as a back up. I would prefer she get her certification in PA if that is the case.
Just an FYI for the group. DD is registered on the raiseme site. CALU was participating and she actually had a couple of thousand dollars “earned” per year. Not considering it as there were better options. However, I checked the site yesterday and there are no longer any awards being offered. They removed themselves as awarding scholarships on the site and provide a link to their website instead.
Wonder if there was too much money being awarded?
Don’t know if everyone knew about this site – ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ – but it is very helpful for comparing a bunch of colleges at once. I plugged in nine, which is more than I’ve been able to compare at once at some other sites.
I can sort by outcome stats like graduation rates after 6 years, salaries, amount of debt; admission stats like median SAT/ACT, GPA; demographics; COA (but not for OOS)
It’s good for basic info, or to solidify a decision. (Like, it’s alarming that the University of Toledo’s graduation rate after 6 years is 44 percent and the student loan default rate is 10% – when the rates at West Chester U are about 67% and 4%, respectively)
It also shows the risk in assuming that a private college’s lavish financial aid will actually help our particular situation here on the PASSHE thread. e.g.: Muhlenberg, Ursinus, Susquehanna and Otterbein have the highest average net price after grants - about $35-26k, respectively. Those are better than a lot of privates, obviously, but I’m not sure $35k helps us here. $26k for Otterbein is, however, in the ballpark for some of us. And the outcomes at some of the privates (though, suspiciously, Otterbein isn’t one of them) can be way better than at some PASSHE schools.
So it’s worth doing your own sorting, based on your own criteria.
Thanks @Gatormama . That’s a great site.
And your assessment on cost is what I’m seeing. We visited Ursinus yesterday. The admissions rep spoke a bit about the Gateway scholarship. If a student is admitted and has at least a 27 ACT or 1220 SAT, they automatically get $30k which brings the cost down to $32k. Not in the PASSHE range. In the PSU range though which seems to be the baseline that many of the PA private schools seek to reach.
Oh, the laundry machines are free at Ursinus. So that saves on something. 
I would think that U Toledo has a lot more students that are Pell eligible compared to WCU as well.
The graduation rate can be affected by more than academic preparedness of students.
With merit alone the costs at many private schools don’t come close to PASSHE numbers, but Susquehanna and Muhlenberg NPCs surprised me with their generosity (need based grants).
@InfiniteWaves - can you detail more about your Ursinus visit? tia!
@Gatormama I played on the collegeresults site for awhile today, putting in the nine schools D applied to.
It was interesting.
For example, with auto-merit D’s price at Mount St. Mary’s would be around $26,000. Their freshman retention and graduation rates aren’t great. However, the loan default rate is really low. I think 10 year salary was decent, too. That seemed to show me that a well-prepared student who applied herself should do well long-term. And on those compares more favorably to other colleges we hear about, like Susquehanna.
Sure thing, @Gatormama !
In Ursinus’ defense, we visited Goucher and Loyola MD (Mr. InfiniteWaves and I are alums) this past Monday. Both campuses have gorgeous, shiny new first year dorms that we got to see on tour. The Ursinus first-year dorm that we saw on tour is dated. Like 1950s dated. No central air but you can bring a window unit and have facilities install it. And they do triple some of the rooms. Laundry is free.
Now, my kids attended a tiny Catholic elementary school that has been in the same tiny building for 90 years. There was no playground, only a small parking lot. I fully understand that dated appearances do not reflect the quality of academics. But some of the Ursinus building interiors were a bit dated as well. The campus is what I would call an eclectic mix of dated and “getting updated.” There are sculptures all over the grounds which adds to the eclectic feel.
It is in a suburban location. Outdoor shopping areas with chain restaurants and stores are nearby and the campus is in the middle of a residential area. It is about eight miles north of King of Prussia. So it is not as remote as Susquehanna and not as near Philly as Goucher is to Baltimore. A nice middle ground.
The academics seem good and what one would expect from a liberal arts environment. Although, the STEMmier areas were emphasized and our tour guide is a bio major. We got to see some students in a lab working on a group research project. My son is interested in English and writing and we really didn’t get any information on the humanities side of the academic house. S19 tends to react positively to the schools that bring up the humanities without having to be asked (Susquehanna and Goucher). Ursinus did not pass that test for him. I’d say that is not a reflection on the schools but he indicates when registering for the visit that he is interested in English. So when we hear only about is STEM, it causes some reservation.
One program that Mr. InfiniteWaves and I really like is the Philly Experience. Ursinus students have the option of spending a semester at Drexel. For those who are not inclined/ready to go abroad outside the US, this is a great opportunity.
The fact that a 26 ACT or 1220 SAT guarantees that costs would land around $32k is also quite an incentive.
Overall, it would be a great school for the right student. But I would definitely suggest visiting to get a feel for the place.
Great info; thanks so much for the report, @InfiniteWaves!
We are likely sticking with “big” schools, but I feel like we need to see at least a couple more LACs to solidify our focus. We have visited Sewanee and Otterbein, and may apply to both, but I thought Susquehanna and one more from PA - trying to pick among Gettysburg, Ursinus, Dickinson (major reach; probably not worth visiting b/c of that) and Muhlenberg for a visit.
We are hitting FSU on the way south for the annual spring break trip to Florida family (we did UF last spring).
And we’ll visit Stockton, because of our close connection to a higher-up there.
Then we’ll be ready to pare the list over the summer, I think. It’s ridiculously large right now.
Side question for the group. I was talking to a friend and we heard that his HS senior child was offered a “full ride” from Pitt this fall. I was trying not to pry too much, so not clear whether it was a full ride or “just” full tuition, as sometimes this is conflated. What would it take based on academic stats to be eligible for this? Thanks.
No, the only full rides at Pitt they would know about by now would be diversity scholarships I would think.
The instate Stamps and the Chancellor’s scholarship selection process is finalized much later in the spring.
If they were talking about full tuition, some students were reporting to have received full tuition from November on, but they have to have top grades, test scores and class rank.
Scholarship consideration starts at 1480 SAT or 33 composite ACT, A average and top 5% class rank I think.
I looked at the Pitt merit thread and most of the full tuition scholarships recipients so far were OOS and had a 1580 SAT.
One instate student reported receiving full tuition with a 1590 SAT.