best architecture prgm. for low income kid

College Majors Architecture Major
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<p>hey guys. I'm a senior and really interested in architecture (not sure which branch). I have a 4.0, take AP classes with 4's on chem and english (taking stats, calc, and physics this year) and have a lot of extra curriculars. I live w/ only my mom who makes about 30-35000 a year.
anyway, what is the best program for architecture? Should I do the normal program of the 5-year bachelors, or pursue a masters? correct me if i'm not asking the right ?'s lol. could i also major in art history? </p>

<p>also, which of the top schools can i get into based on the above stats (p.s. i need lots of financial aid)
-want a private school, but will take the best i can get. </p>

<p>thanks a lot guys. I'm ordering a copy of "Architect?" right now.</p>

2

<p>ramsfan, Putting the money aside for a minute you need to think about whether you want to head straight into architecture as a firstyear or get a undergraduate degree in art or art history (or botany for that matter:)) and then go on to get a graduate degree in architecture. </p>

<p>Either way you also have the option of attending a school that offers a liberal arts education (large or small) or an art school per se. </p>

<p>Lots of choices here. No route is better than another, just different. </p>

<p>Your grades and scores are very good. If your SAT or ACT scores follow suit you'll be at a sound starting place, but before you can make a meaningful list, you'll need to think about what YOU want.</p>

<p>Many colleges offer financial aid. You need to learn more about how it works. First, what's the situation with your father? Even though you don't live with him colleges will consider his income when determining your "need." </p>

<p>I'd suggest that you take a look at the Questbridge organization that helps match up high achieving low income kids with selective private colleges.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.questbridge.org/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.questbridge.org/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Obviously, if you go straight through architecture in a 5 year program it will cost less than getting a 4 year degree plus another 3 year graduate degree. The disadvantage of this (to some) is that it is very focused and doesn't allow you to experiment with a wider range of classes. </p>

<p>Financial aid IS available both for undergraduate and graduate school. Unless your father's income complicates the picture, you should qualify for substantial need based aid and maybe merit aid as well. As I said, I'd concentrate first on determining what you want in a school, then tackle the money.</p>

<p>Just to throw out some names of small liberal arts schools that have especially good studio art and art history programs: Williams, Wesleyan, Conn College, Skidmore, Kenyon, Hamilton. Smith if you are female. These colleges have a good track record for getting their graduates into architecture masters programs.</p>

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<p>So i could major in art history and then do a 3-year graduate for arch? will i still take arch. classes as an undergrad.?</p>

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<p>also, my testing is ok i guess. 30 on ACT and 1300 on SAT, math is only 610, need to bump it up</p>

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<p>
[quote]
So i could major in art history and then do a 3-year graduate for arch?

[/quote]

yes, absolutely. You could also double major in art history and art studio or any other combination that you like or just focus on art history.</p>

<p>
[quote]
will i still take arch. classes as an undergrad.?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Most colleges offer architectural drawing courses as part of the undergraduate art department. The art history departments also have history of architecture. Williams, which is the school I'm most familiar with, has an excellent array of undergraduate architecture courses both in studio and history and a fine advising system for getting kids into graduate school.</p>

<p>EDIT: I'd like to add that even if you choose a 5 year B.Arch program you will get a fair amount of art history. Take a look at Conn College or Cornell for an idea of curriculum.</p>

<p>I wouldn't want to comment on your scores out of context of your whole profile. Yes, they could be higher for the very selective colleges, but since your grades are very good and you come from a low income single parent family other factors may compensate.</p>

<p>At this point you should worry less about the SAT I /ACT (except that you'll have to take some SATII's) and concentrate on </p>

<ol>
<li>Putting together a balanced list that includes schools of varying selectivity.</li>
<li>Assembling a knock-out application, including essays, recommendations and possibly a resume and supplemental material.</li>
</ol>

<p>If you are involved in art you should include a slide portfolio with your application.</p>

<p>Contact Questbridge, right away though. This is a wonderful group to have on your side.</p>

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<p>Cooper Union. if you get accepted into the Architecture program, tuition is paid for. i think you still have to pay for some fees and if you're living in the dorms, but otherwise it's an amazing deal. the home test part of the application tests your art skills and creativity. about 30-35 students get accepted each year. it's highly competitive, but if you work hard on your home test, you'll have a chance.</p>

<p>RPI, CMU, Cornell are all excellent in Architecture. they're private, so i don't know how that'll play into the financial situation. </p>

<p>Rice University is really good, but you need really high SAT scores, as well as SATIIs in Math, Physics and/or Chemistry. i think they require... 2+ SATIIs. i'm not sure.</p>

<p>check out the NAAB site for a complete list of accredited architecture schools, and good luck! i'm going for architecture too :O)</p>

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<p>The hardest part for me at this point is deciding between the 5-year program or a more diverse and liberal undergrad and then grad. school. anyone have opinions on this? (by the way momrath, thank you sooooo much for soooooo much info. it helps alot)</p>

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<p>"Just to throw out some names of small liberal arts schools that have especially good studio art and art history programs: Williams, Wesleyan, Conn College, Skidmore, Kenyon, Hamilton. Smith if you are female. These colleges have a good track record for getting their graduates into architecture masters programs."</p>

<p>Smith actually has an architecture program, as well as an excellent art history program. For those willing to learn Italian, there are architecture students who regularly spend their junior year at the Smith program in Florence. (where my d. currently is.) 26% of the student body is made up of Pell Grant recipients (meaning family incomes below $40k.)</p>

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<p>I second the recommendation of Cooper Union. Other than that, I know you said you prefer private schools, but for low income I would recommend your state university for undergrad, and do the best you can academically and save over summers so that you can splurge a bit more on grad school, if you plan on going.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The hardest part for me at this point is deciding between the 5-year program or a more diverse and liberal undergrad and then grad. school. anyone have opinions on this?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>At the end of the day, you're the only one who can answer that question, but I'd say if you're not 100% sold that architecture is what you want to think about 24/7 then DON'T go straight to architecture school. If you don't love it you'll end up spending more time and money not less when you drop out or change programs.</p>

<p>Good luck and let us know how you do.</p>

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<p>Check out the University of Cincinnati. They have a very highly ranked architecture program rated by Design Intelligence, and their tution is reasonable since they are a state school. Most kids get a 5,000 yearly scholarship through their Cincinnatus scholarship program, which makes Cincinnati a real steal. Finally, they have a superb paid coop program for all Design and Architectual students, which make the cost of the school even less. No tuition or room and board are charged while a student is on coop, unless you are living on campus, which would then cause some room fees.</p>

<p>If you were to ask most Architects, they will tell you about Cincinnati. It is very well known in the field.</p>

<p>I should note that because of its high ranking and relatively low price, it is hard to get admitted there.</p>

<p>Seriously, check them out.</p>

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<p>Cooper Union takes less than 20 students for architecture each year. The 'student fee' is $750. per semester. NYC living expenses will push the cost up close to 20k. Nonetheless, it's a $30k per year tuition scholarship to every student.</p>

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<p>Do the better jobs come for the 5-year grads. or the 4+2-3 program grads? I would like a little flexibility so the 4+3 is good for that, but I also want to be able to secure a job.</p>

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<p>Better jobs for the 4 + 2-3 program grads. An M.Arch. is generally still a bit more respected than a B.Arch., even though the degrees are arguably identical. Obviously, the difference is partly that an M.Arch. graduate generally has several additional years of education under their belt, and often a previous B.A. degree in the liberal arts (e.g., a degree in writing, art history, languages, art, design, physics, urban politics, or some other skill that can be very useful in the field of architecture), which adds to their market value and may demonstrate to an employer that they are a more well-rounded person. But, obviously there are B.Arch. programs at schools like Cornell or Texas that are considered to be stronger than M.Arch. programs at schools like RISD or Syracuse.</p>

<p>As you will note from the following ranking, the best schools are M.Arch. schools, although some of them (like Yale) also have small, elite B.A. programs that are considered to be gateways to the master's degree.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.di.net/article.php?article_id=173%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.di.net/article.php?article_id=173&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Consider the 4 architects picked to design the new World Trade Center - combined, they have 4 degrees from Yale.</p>

<p>David Childs - Yale M.Arch., Yale Undergrad
Richard Rogers - Yale M.Arch., AASU (London) undergrad
Norman Foster - Yale M.Arch., UManchester (England) undergrad
F. Maki - Harvard M.Arch., U-Tokyo (Japan) undergrad</p>

<p>Obviously, in terms of funding, the better the university, the more likely you are to get financial aid. If you are from a family making $35K per year and go to Yale or Harvard, all expenses will be paid.</p>

<p>Even if a top school is a bit more expensive, it's definitely worth it. Consider these quotes from Robert A.M. Stern, the world-famous dean of the Yale School of Architecture, writing about the most recent class of architecture students (if you think you knew what name dropping meant, think again):</p>

<p>‘Students were entertained by Sir Michael and Lady Patricia, who is also a partner in the Hopkins firm, both at their weekend house at Snape Maltings and in their landmark steel and glass house in London.… This kind of direct experience – teacher-to-student, building-to-practice and building-to-place – is the standard we aspire to for all. Alan Plattus led his students on a trip to the Ruhr valley in Germany… In the spring semester, Zaha Hadid brought her studio to Beijing, China to meet with Soho China developers and to visit the site for new villas. … Frank Gehry's studio travelled to Los Angeles and Lisbon, Portugal.’</p>

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<p>some of the schools that others mentioned (CMU, Cornell, Rice, maybe even Cooper Union) might throw up red flags when they see your math SAT. Do whatever it takes to boost that.</p>

<p>meanwhile, your other credentials are very competitive. Syracuse looks like an excellent fit, as does Cincinatti.</p>

<p>Don't sweat the money too much........... sounds like you will be an excellent candidate for substantial merit scholarships (although some schools' formulas are pretty rigid and DO include a minimum combined SAT). BUT, apply for every scholarship you can get your hands on, and check out what scholarships, if any, come from your HS at end of year awards ceremonies.</p>

<p>Finally, if your work ethic is as good as your grades indicate, don't sell yourself short when it comes to deciding between schools that accept you. Go for the best fit, and the best education. The money will fall into place.</p>

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<p>some of the schools that others mentioned (CMU, Cornell, Rice, maybe even Cooper Union) might throw up red flags when they see your math SAT. Do whatever it takes to boost that. I believe CMU requires the Math II SAT for architecture applicants.</p>

<p>meanwhile, your other credentials are very competitive. Syracuse looks like an excellent fit, as does Cincinatti.</p>

<p>Don't sweat the money too much........... sounds like you will be an excellent candidate for substantial merit scholarships (although some schools' formulas are pretty rigid and DO include a minimum combined SAT). BUT, apply for every scholarship you can get your hands on, and check out what scholarships, if any, come from your HS at end of year awards ceremonies.</p>

<p>Finally, if your work ethic is as good as your grades indicate, don't sell yourself short when it comes to deciding between schools that accept you. Go for the best fit, and the best education. The money will fall into place.</p>

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<p>So if I do the 5 year prgm, will i be able to take any electives or double major (ex.architecure w/ art history or studio art)? or is the 5-year just a straight shot into the career basically?</p>

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<p>You'll be able to take electives, even a minor if you work hard for it, but double-majoring is pretty well outside the realm of possibility.</p>

<p>If you're looking at 5-years, then take a look at the University of Southern California as well- they are quite good at meeting financial need, and also have some big scholarships available.</p>

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<p>rams, If your total family income is $35,000 (including your father's) you will get need based financial aid. This will apply whether you choose to study architecture from the get-go or just enter a college or university as an undeclared major. Please sit down with your mother and one of those on-line aid calculators to get a guideline of what to expect.</p>

<p>Some colleges guarantee to cover all financial need. I.e., if they accept you they will figure out a way for you to attend. When you get your acceptances you can compare the offers from the various colleges and it's often possible to negotiate a better deal if your #1 choice is on the lower side.</p>

<p>My understanding is that need based aid is also available for MArch students. </p>

<p>So, basically, put the money to the side for now. </p>

<p>Forget about double majoring in architecture school. They'll keep you busy. Choose a school and look at their curriculum. Art History will definitely be part of the picture. Once again, ask yourself: Am I 99% sure that I want to be an architect? If the answer is no or I'm not sure, then I'd counsel against BArch as it's a very focused and difficult route and not for the wishy-washy.</p>

<p>Again, I don't have direct experience here so you architecture majors chime in!, but I believe that the portfolio is quite important in admissions to undergraduate architecture programs. How is yours?</p>

<p>Have you been able to visit any colleges? It would be good to sit down with someone in the architecture department and ask your questions face to face. If visiting isn't practical, you could always send an e-mail to the department.</p>

<p>And definitely don't worry about getting a job just yet. BArch's get good jobs, MArchI's get good jobs, MArchII's get good jobs. You just can't predict what will lead to success -- except of course talent amd hard work. Philip Johnson has an undergraduate degree in philosophy.</p>

<p>I'll respond to your PM a little later.</p>

20

<p>
[quote]
Do the better jobs come for the 5-year grads.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I am an architect with 30 years experience in the field. I own my practice which I launched in NYC when I was 28.</p>

<p>Yes, BArch students get the better jobs because they spend 10 semesters in design class while the 4 + 3 students only spend 6 semesters learning design. This is very visible in the portfolios--which are reviewed during job interviews. When I hire someone, I am looking for someone with visible design talent and visible CAD and model making skills. It is very very difficult to produce a number of visible skills AND talents within 6 semesters of design class. </p>

<p>Also, many BArchs go on to get MArchs. Those MArchs make MUCH more money than the 4 + 3 MArchs, again, because they have 13 or 14 semesters of design studio while the 4 + 3 MArchs only have 6. In nearly every job situation, the BArch from a top school will trump a 4 + 3 MArch from a comparable school--unless the 4 + 3 MArch has amazing CAD or model skills.</p>

<p>Where do you live? Where do you want to live when you graduate? These questions are very important when making a decision about architecture school.</p>