Best financial aid package for conservatories?

College Majors Music Major
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<p>I'm starting this thread on behalf of a dear friend whose son is preparing to apply to conservatories. The family will require a full ride or close to that. Instrument(s): piano and violin. The kid really is amazing at both, and is currently preparing his rep for likes of Colburn, Juilliard, Curtis, etc. He has not yet decided which instrument he would prefer, and may well decide based upon audition results/offers. He will apply in classical, as that is where his training is focused, but his jazz improvisation skills are astounding in both instruments--he has done plenty of professional gigs. He could easily apply in jazz as well, in either instrument. He prefers solo rep, so that may influence his choice of program and instrument, unless a violin program exists that does not require ensemble participation for 4 years. </p>

<p>He is an under-represented minority, 4.0 gpa, test scores are very good but not stellar. He would consider both conservatories and excellent music programs at colleges/universities. The family fully realizes that the teacher is the most important factor. Their ability to travel around to take sample lessons is very limited. They are in California and are considering all locations.</p>

<p>Any ideas?</p>

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<p>A few schools (perhaps, most of which you are already familiar with):</p>

<p>Colburn: The best automatic full ride conservatory: not only is tuition free for all admitted students, but students get a free apartment and living allowance. Only one violin teacher: Lipsett.</p>

<p>Curtis: Free tuition for all admitted and some scholarship available to help cover living expenses for some students.</p>

<p>Juilliard: Opinions vary on the generosity of the financial aid. For a family that is not well-off, there is a good chance of substantial financial aid. [My very limited experience has been that Juilliard is generous, but I think for families in the US that consider themselves middle-class by NYC standards [upper class by standards in most of the rest of the world], the aid is more limited than they might expect or like.</p>

<p>Oberlin: Has a reputation for generous financial aid. </p>

<p>Rice: Has an outstanding music program (better than its relative fame would suggest) and meets full financial need of US applicants (not so for international applicants).</p>

<p>Robert McDuffie Center for Strings at Mercer University: Gives full tuition to all admitted. If there is financial need and great talent, they may give more than full tuition. The program is small (deliberately kept that way) and relatively new. It is not well-known and its location is a detractor for some (small southern city an hour from Atlanta), but there is excellent teaching and good string students.</p>

<p>One can get near full tuition at many top schools if one is exceptional–even at schools which are notoriously stingy towards most of their applicants. As well, many less than top schools will give full tuition or full ride.</p>

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<p>Agreed, even those notoriously typically tight-fisted like NEC, MSM, and Berklee (for informational purposes, take a look at some of the background of the recipients here [Scholarships</a> at Berklee | Presidential Scholarship](<a href=“http://www.berklee.edu/scholarships/presidential/default.html]Scholarships”>http://www.berklee.edu/scholarships/presidential/default.html)) can be extremely generous for the exceptional. The trick is a good portion of the largess will stem from the ranking within the audition pool. Having a reasonable handle of competitiveness is important. Definitely research the specific institutional policies for each, as in some programs a music scholarship will not necessarily be combine-able with a stats, academic or non-talent merit scholarship. Also, whether the school is FAFSA only, or requires the CSS profile/and institutional methodology in determining need. Having the family run the numbers through the available on-line calculators will be helpful.</p>

<p>One thought about applying on two instruments may be finding the right instructor for either one at the same institution, especially since you say money for visits and sample lessons will be restricted. I’d suggest they utilize suggestions from private instructors as to potential mentors, and there may need to be a meeting of the minds.</p>

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<p>Thanks! I hadn’t known about Mercer, and had forgotten about Rice. Re Juilliard financial aid: We are aware of a kid who was 30 seconds into his French horn audition at Juilliard when they offered him a full ride. It does happen, apparently!</p>

<p>Violadad, thanks for those reminders. I won’t be surprised if this kid gets some excellent offers. Trying to combine those with the right teacher(s) may be the challenge. Any ideas regarding double major (both instruments) or string programs without extensive orchestra requirements? The student has been in top youth orchestras in the past, but is more attracted to the solo rep, and at this moment is not in an orchestra.</p>

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<p>He will have to submit separate prescreen recordings to any competitive school in both instruments…if it is allowed. Most teachers at that level will expect that he will have already made a decision about which instrument. Perhaps a conversation with the admissions office about this would be advised, before submitting dual applications. The level of dedication expected and required to master piano and violin at a premiere conservatory may preclude him going into auditions in both instruments.</p>

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<p>He might want to look at Eastman as well. Fabulous in piano although not quite as strong in violin. They also have an excellent jazz program. If he auditions well he will be given a scholarship.</p>

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<p>sopranomom92, do note lorelei’s caveat in post#5, as it could well be a stumbling block at many institutions. I’m not saying that for a certain few that it’s not possible, but that for most dual instrumental pursuit is a pipe dream. A lot depends on the specific institution, and the departmental and private instructor(s)’ philosophies. Many will see the other as being at cross purposes. Look for posts by -Allmusic-, whose son faced a similar dilemma. Perhaps stringkeymom as well, (piano and violin), and deagle1 who will be pursuing jazz sax and flute at U North Texas, singsnstring’s D is at Rice, violin performance and vocal studies.</p>

<p>I am aware of no mainstream BM violin program that does not mandate ensemble participation for a full 8 semesters. This is a dig deep, do your home work and ask the right people the question scenario. Requirements can be overridden or replaced, but there has to dialog and valid reasoning behind the request. “I wanna be a soloist” most likely will not cut it.</p>

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<p>Just going to throw in some observations from people I have known and background on conservatories I have picked up, as well as personal observations.</p>

<p>-If the perspective student is from an under represented minority (for example Hispanic or African American) there is more then likely an increased chance of good financial and/or merit aid based on what I hear on the grapevine, because the very reason that classical music and the schools that feed it recognize there is a significant lack of diversity. Not a guarantee, obviously, and a lot still rides on talent and obviously financial need as well. </p>

<p>-If he is really that talented, then merit aid can be generous as well. </p>

<p>-I suspect that he may have to choose which instrument he wants to play, given what I know of teachers on those instruments, they would frown on someone doing a double major like that (might be wise to e-mail the admissions departments of music schools and simply ask them if that is possible…most are pretty good about responding). Also keep in mind that playing an instrument at the conservatory or major music school is not like high school, and practice time is going to generally be much, much longer, in the realm of 4-6 hours a day, and given everything else music students are required to do, with ensembles, orchestras, theory, etc, I don’t see how someone could do that kind of practice on two instruments (again, theoretically it may be possible, but…). I suspect what might come out is that the kid would have to choose one instrument or the other, but arrange for secondary instruction on the other instrument…and I agree with Violadad, they aren’t likely to let any student out of ensemble playing, chamber music (violin or piano) and orchestra are mainstays of the curricula (not to mention that if he really wants to go into music, the odds of becoming a high level soloist is extremely small, and as a musician ensemble playing is the bread and butter of most of them).</p>

<p>-I would also recommend if at all possible to find someone to give a realistic assessment of his abilities on both instruments, and here is why. Competition in the music world is staggering across the board, but piano and violin are at an incredibly high level, and he needs to get an assessment from someone who knows what the relative levels are so he can make reasonable choices. I have seen plenty of kids, who were all state, members of major youth orchestras, everyone thought they were the next Heifetz or Rubinstein, and then when they thought they were ready for the big leagues, realized just how high the bar is. If his family can afford it, maybe look up a music school close enough to where he lives so he could travel there and get an assessment, it can really help him decide what to do IMO.</p>

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<p>Two instruments, eh? Very, very difficult, but not impossible, even though most conservatories (especially the tippy top ones too) will tell you it is. The only school that my son looked at that absolutely would not entertain the idea of two instruments was MSM, although they were fine with auditioning on both—then he had to choose (and he didn’t want to do that, which was fine because they offered him the least money). </p>

<p>He had prescreens everywhere, and doing two sets of prescreens was no small feat. But again, it was doable, just required good organization skills! Had he looked at less competitive schools, he would not have had all those prescreens. That could be something else to consider. He was also offered full rides at less competitive schools by teachers who met him at festivals and summer programs. More things to consider.</p>

<p>My S had several teachers acknowledge that it would be very difficult to do what he wanted to do, and indeed, it has been difficult…but not impossible. Others saw his strengths and potential and were encouraging. The trick is to find a school where they will help facilitate the two degrees and two instruments and be supportive. If the administration and teachers are not behind the student, it really will be impossible. The scheduling alone could be a nightmare (my son is doing both classical and jazz degrees, and only so many courses overlap). The practice requirements are very difficult, but he has worked it out. It took a little time to figure out how to do this though. </p>

<p>I’d definitely recommend the talent assessment, and talking/taking lessons with professors. They are usually pretty upfront.</p>

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<p>It is possible to play some instruments more hours a day that it is others. The criteria is what is physically possible without incurring injury. In those instruments where 4-6+ hours a day is possible, the standards of excellence are very high. String and keyboard players are in the 4-6 category. Singers and brass players are more limited…I can only speak with absolute authority about singers, and for issues of vocal health they can manage no more than 2-3 a day (including ensemble singing) and ONLY if spread out wisely. It might be more possible for someone to manage a double major in voice and piano, for instance. I doubt a wind or brass player could double major in voice, because the mechanics of breath usage are different. Concerning ensemble playing: accredited BM degrees require a certain number of credit hours in ensemble. At the premier conservatories, orchestra assignments may be intermittent, not a constant part of the schedule. For keyboard players, ensemble assignments will include chamber music and collaborative playing (i.e.accompanying the singers and instrumentalists).</p>

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<p>While it would be next to impossible to find a violin program without orchestral and chamber requirements or one that would waive them for a student, it could be worthwhile to examine the extent of the requirements, both in terms of number of semesters and the number of rehearsal hours per week. </p>

<p>Chamber music at some places is a requirement for all 8 semesters. There are other schools that only require it for 4 semesters.</p>

<p>Orchestra is usually required for all 8 semesters, but rehearsal hours per week vary widely. Rice, for example, which has excellent orchestras and alumni that have been doing very well in orchestra auditions, has quite a high number of hours per week for orchestra. On the other hand, the McDuffie Center for Strings at Mercer has a relatively low number of orchestral rehearsal hours per week for students that get admitted to the Center (string students that don’t make it into the Center have a higher number of hours); the Center tends to have more flexibility than many larger programs. </p>

<p>From what I have seen, the number of orchestra rehearsal hours per week varies from a low of about 2 to a high of about 10. Most of the really good schools tend to be in the 6 to 10 range. </p>

<p>I don’t have a good handle on the number of chamber music hours per week, so if someone else does, please let us know. I know that a really keen quartet will voluntarily practice tons, particularly if they have an upcoming competition, but I don’t have a good idea as to the minimum required hours of rehearsal (or perhaps it is like private practice: however much it takes!).</p>

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<p>Northwestern University is similar to Rice in terms of meeting demonstrated need.</p>

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<p>University of Southern California Thornton School meets demonstrated need I believe and is generous to those with financial need as well as having a merit scholarship program. Certainly worth a look since the subject is in CA.</p>

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<p>This is very hard to predict with audition based conservatory programs. As noted, some are generous to the very best of those who audition…and there are a few fully funded programs (Curtis and Colburn have been mentioned…beware that housing costs in Phili are not a bargain and Curtis doesn’t provide room/board).</p>

<p>This student will need to be the very best and then some to get a full award at a conservatory. I will guess that it is VERY rare for students to be offered full rides at these schools after less than a minute of playing. I’m sure it happens, but it is the exception rather than the rule.</p>

<p>Re: the ensemble and chamber music requirements, if it’s a performance based program it is not likely that the ensemble/chamber requirement would be waived. At Curtis, however, a number of students are pursuing solo careers…and perhaps there this is not required. Of course…the hurdle is getting accepted,</p>

<p>Others have given you good advice about university based music programs (Rice, for example). I would suggest adding Vanderbilt to the list. What about Oberlin?</p>

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<p>Bard Conservatory has full tuition merit scholarships - with additional financial aid, as needed, for the five years required to earn a double degree. But the student, as most on here already know, is required to get that second degree in Bard College.</p>

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<p>I really want to know more about this. It is so far outside of anything I’ve heard of or experienced.</p>

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<p>A few thoughts on the 30-seconds-to-full-ride incident (I am not trying to question the authenticity of the incident, but rather reflect on its implications):</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I don’t believe there is any correlation between amount of merit aid and the time from audition to offer. Most full-ride students at good schools wait out their full two or three months after their audition before they hear. While certainly some students are told at their audition about their admission (and occasionally about potential merit aid), most are not and those who are not told are not, as a group, any less talented than those that are told. Unfortunately, these dramatic stories get retold often (and perhaps made even more dramatic by those of us (including self) that love a great story), and the poor auditioning students that do not get instant feedback think that they just are not that good.</p></li>
<li><p>The speed of decision is probably inversely correlated with the quality of the school. The better the school, the less likely it is that an instant decision or communication of it will be made. The good schools have policies in place to ensure that money is doled out as fairly as possible because they have so many very deserving students applying and these policies usually require that the financial aid office be involved (difficult to do that in 30 seconds although with the number of faculty now texting during auditions maybe it can be done!).</p></li>
<li><p>The speed of the decision and its communication are more a reflection of the impetuousness of a faculty member than of the level of talent. I hear far more stories of the instant offer from brass players than from piano or string players; hate to stereotype, but I’m certain the brass faculty tend generally to have different personality traits than the string or piano faculty. Careful instructors will sometimes communicate the strong possibility of good merit money, but they will rarely name a dollar figure or guarantee full-ride on the spot (unless their school has very few talented students and is desperate to attract some: obviously not the case with Juilliard, admittedly).</p></li>
<li><p>No student takes a stopwatch into the audition room and watches it while they play! A student’s sense of time is usually way off during the audition. Even those with very accurate internal clocks seem to consistently misjudge the length of their audition. How often have we seen or heard of the student crying because they felt they obviously blew their audition because the ones before theirs were sooo long and theirs was only five minutes, when in fact, everyone had 15 minutes? My son has one of those high quality Swiss internal clocks and he substantially misjudged the lengths of his auditions. Many, many kids think their 15 minutes was only 5 minutes, and many, many think that 5 minutes was 30 seconds. </p></li>
<li><p>Within 20 or 30 seconds, instructors can usually tell the difference between a person who can’t possibly be admitted and one that definitely will be. However, at a place like Juilliard where auditioners have passed a prescreen and the best players in the world are auditioning, almost everyone will have a great sounding first 20 or 30 seconds and instructors really do need to hear quite a bit more to determine if the person has the musical maturity to communicate the architecture of a large structure and big thought; many students can make a beautiful sound for 30 seconds and can communicate the little idea of the first 30 seconds, but 30 seconds cannot contain a full range of techniques, moods and styles. </p></li>
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<p>To reiterate, I am not trying to cast any doubt on the authenticity of the 30-seconds-to-full-ride (after all, I was not there), but just want future students not to think any less of themselves because they didn’t get this type of communication. I am quite certain that most of today’s classical superstars played considerably longer than 30 seconds at their auditions before they were told they had a free ride.</p>

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<p>And, given the alleged institution and a rather controversial thread from a month or three back, it could well be payola from an Asian industrialist that prompted the offer. :D</p>

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<p>I was 30 seconds into your post, when I thought … “Asian industrialist”.</p>

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<p>My first thought was that there haven’t been any Asian horn players recently, but now that I think about it, I do believe there was a Chinese grad student there when my S started 6 years ago… hmmmmmm.</p>