<p>I recently visited Harvard and found myself disappointed with the impersonality, sheer number of students and pedestrians, and imposing/expansive campus. Based on the following, can anyone suggest a different ivy that might be a better match (not based on admission, just my preferences).</p>
<p>I care more for small classes, intelligent and available professors, suburban/urban contained campuses, strong social sciences departments, and good extracurriculars. Here are some (negative) preconceptions and opinions I've gathered from alumni friends and family...
brown= too isolated
columbia= sprawling and populated campus, easy to get lost in a crowd?
cornell= too isolated, not strong enough in social sciences
dartmouth= too isolated
harvard= hated it for impersonality and sheer size/population of students and tourists/residents milling around the expansive campus at all times
upenn= same cons as columbia?
princeton= student body is too preppy and perfect, which results in intense competition
yale= unimpressive town, bad classroom condition?
......Hopefully that's enough to give you an impression of my preferences.</p>
<p>Brown isn't too isolated and Cornell is not too weak in the Social Sciences. I would not look into Cornell anyway because the professors are not very accessible and it is isolated, but certainly check out Brown. Also check out Princeton. It is true that the students are preppy, but it is still a great place to study. It has a self-contained campus, the professors are accessible and it is roughly 1 hour away from NYC and Philly. </p>
<p>I would also recommend Northestern and Stanford.</p>
<p>kaulie, You sound like Goldilocks! :) Every college is going to have some pluses and minuses. Many of the points that you didnt like (or feel you wont like) are endemic to the type of university youre looking at. If you go for size youre going to get issues with impersonality, imposing/expansive campus, sprawling campus. If you go for a school in a city youre going to get urban issues like crime, decay, crowds, interaction between the college and civilians. If you go for a rural college youre going to get isolation. If go for an elite suburb, it's going to feel like an elite suburb.If you go for a super selective youre going to get intense competition. </p>
<p>Maybe you need to think through what you really want. If its small classes, available professors (lets assume theyd be intelligent at most colleges), personal attention, cohesive campus, friendly supportive kids, good extracurriculars, an idyllic campus environment, ivory tower feeling it sounds more like a small liberal arts college to me. Take a look at Amherst, Swarthmore, Williams, Pomona, Wellesley (if female), Chicago, Reed. </p>
<p>There are many, many others but these are the ones that have the most common overlap with kids who might have ended up at an ivy. Like the ivies they have different personalities and none is likely to have it all, but judging from what's disappointed you about Harvard maybe you should change the title of your next post.</p>
<p>I think you need to do soem work on your own. It is easy to get caught up in what others say, but figure it out for yourself. What someone feels is "too isolated" or "too urban" might be exactly what you personally are looking for. </p>
<p>Every major decision in life involves pros and cons. You certainly have found at least one negative aspect about each of these schools. But maybe there is ten positives for one, two, or three of them that you haven't discovered yet. Or maybe an Ivy isn't for you...there are another 15-20 schools that provide just as reputable of an education, and tons more that might not be "Ivy material" but may be the best place for you.</p>
<p>Definitely look into the liberal arts colleges though.</p>
<p>I haven't visited these colleges myself yet, but I am a little skeptical about some of your criticisms:</p>
<p>-Columbia is one of the smallest Ivies and is in an urban location, so I think saying it has a "sprawling campus" and is "overpopulated" is a bit of a stretch, at least relative to every other Ivy League
-Cornell has fine social sciences
-Upenn is a total different environment than Columbia, although Penn does have a very large student body for an Ivy. But I don't think it is that comparable to Columbia.
-Princeton: sure there's competition, but it doesn't have to do w/ the student body being "preppy." The "competitive Ivy" is Cornell (speaking in generalities).</p>
<p>Has it occured to you that since you find fault with all of the Ivies, that maybe these schools are the best for you. There really is no shame in coming to this realization. The world will nto swallow you up, you won't be branded a failure because you know these schools are not for you (actually it is very smart of you to know this and move on instead of saying I need an Ivy and anyone will do). So now you have 8 down and more than 3000 more colleges in this country to choose from.</p>
<p>"columbia= sprawling and populated campus, easy to get lost in a crowd?"</p>
<p>Def not. You said that one of your criteria was "suburban/urban contained campuses," and that is exactly what columbia is. There are actual gates that encompass the campus of columbia. Even though it's in the city, the school has a defined campus (except for a few of the graduate buildings).</p>
<p>Personally I'm VERY interested in LACs...I recently visited Wellesley and am looking Amherst, Swarthmore, and Pomona, as well as non-LACs such as UChicago, Rice, and Tufts. In addition to these colleges however, I wanted to apply to at least one Ivy per the advice and wants of relatives, for the hell of it. I only wanted to know which one would be closest to what I liked, not because I really want an Ivy, but because I just wanted to have a better idea of where I would be most comfortable out of the eight institutions(and the list of cons was not why i found each college unacceptable, but a mention of some drawbacks to each that friends and family have mentioned that i wanted to cross-check). Sorry for the confusion, but thank you all tons for the info and advice nonetheless.</p>
<p>Well, if you can't take Dartmouth's location, I'd say go with Columbia -- it has a lot of similarities to U of Chicago as well as a much smaller student body than someplace like Cornell or Penn.</p>
<p>Hanna, Columbia has 20,000 students...making it as large as Cornell and Penn. Even if you were referring to undergraduate students, Columbia is not "much" smaller than Penn. Columbia has 7,000 undergraduate students, Penn has 10,000 undergrads.</p>
<p>Kaulie, I think the Ivy that most closely meets your demands is Brown.</p>
<p>Columbia is not "much" smaller than Penn. Columbia has 7,000 undergraduate students, Penn has 10,000 undergrads.</p>
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<p>Unlike Penn, which houses undergrads from its various colleges all together, Columbia College students aren't simply mixed together with Barnard students. Engineering can legitimately considered part of the Columbia undergrad population, but I think Barnard undergrads would be the first to tell you that it just isn't the same as being part of one giant system, the way non-academic life is organized at Penn. Same with General Studies undergrads. So I maintain that being part of an undergrad community about half the size of Penn's community is indeed "much" smaller.</p>
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I wanted to apply to at least one Ivy per the advice and wants of relatives, for the hell of it.
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<p>I think this is one of the dumbest reasons ever to apply for a school. I am quite sure there are plenty of people who are willing to take the $70 off your hands. </p>
<p>Have you told your family your issues with these schools just as you have told this borad? If yes, they really are not listening to you or sounds as if they are caught up in a " just what will the neighbors thinK" mentality. Could they be looking for a level of "pretige" that they think that only going to an Ivy can give? The scary part is that if you get accepted you pay come under a lot of pressure to attend a school that right now you have no interest in attending.</p>
<p>My parents discourage me from going for prestige, in fact, they are rooting for the local university. I have no qualms with no name-brand, which is why I am focusing outside the Ivy League. There is no harm in one reach application to an Ivy in my opinion, especially if I there is something worth looking into there. There is one relative in an elite admissions board on the east coast that for sentiment's sake and because she believes I can get in wishes me to apply to an ivy; with the common app, that doesn't pose a time problem, and if the college suits my needs as a reach, then why not apply? As of now I'm researching if there is a suitable one, that's all. If I ultimately am uninterested in all of them, then I won't apply, as simple as that.</p>
<p>Kaulie if you are considering Amherst you have to look into Dartmouth. It is Isolated but is very LAC-like and feels absolutely like a utopian small community. I went to Columbia for a year before transferring to Dartmouth, and although its undergraduate population is not that big, it FEELS big. There just isnt that much community or spirit. Dartmouth on the other hand really fosters a more LAC-like environment.</p>
<p>Dartmouth IS a beautiful place with lots of happy kids and while it is similar to Amherst in some ways, there is no avoiding the isolation. I will tell you that the geographical location of Amherst is very different from that of Dartmouth (rural New Hampshire with stores that close in the afternoon...) I'm from NYC and am looking forward to living in a quiet environment, away from the hustle and bustle. But for someone who cannot stand isolation, Dartmouth is probably not your Ivy. The other Ivy that has the most liberal art-sy feel is Brown which is located in Providence, a great city with lots to do.</p>
<p>But being that Slipper1234 actually goes to Dartmouth, she might be able to describe it more acurately than I can.</p>
<p>To the original poster: Have you looked beyond the Ivy league? It seems to me that schools like Swarthmore, Amherst, Williams, Haverford, etc. might be a closer fit with what you are looking for --- Even Rice and the University of Chicago might be better fits for you. It would be silly to limit yourself to Ivy league schools if they are not what you are looking for.</p>