<p>Who cares what the average person thinks? Yes, the average person may even know that HYPSM are the best schools in America...but the fact is that the average person has no clue just HOW good these schools are. The average person doesn't really understand how big an accomplishment it is to be admitted to any top 25 school.</p>
<p>No way in hell is Berkeley not teir 1. They rank just as high, if not higher, in business and engineering than most ivies and top 10 for almost everything else. What are you guys smoking? Everyone knows about Berkeley.</p>
<p>Tier 1: HYPSM, Berkeley
Tier 2: Cornell, Columbia, Penn, Duke, Cal Tech
Tier 3: Georgetown, Notre Dame, Brown, Johns Hopkins, Rice
Tier 4: Northwestern, Vanderbilt, UCLA
Tier 5: University of Chicago, NYU, UNC
Tier 6: Boston College, Georgia Tech, Michigan
Tier 7: UVA, Wake Forest, William and Mary, USC</p>
<p>^ My list.</p>
<p>Wash U would be on the list, but only doctors know what it is haha.</p>
<p>let's see... the average person (really, an AVERAGE PERSON) probably</p>
<ul>
<li>hasn't heard of brown</li>
<li>thinks penn is penn state</li>
<li>either thinks caltech is really good or has never heard of it</li>
<li>has never heard of rice, emory, vandy, chicago and all those "mid-elites"</li>
<li>has heard of UNC and notre dame; thinks certain athletic powerhouses are more prestigious or gets name-recognition based on sports</li>
<li>doesn't know which schools are in the ivy league/can not name all 8 in the ivy league... ok fine doesnt even know that there are 8 schools in the ivy league</li>
<li>thinks stanford is in the ivy league</li>
<li>doesnt know what a liberal arts college is</li>
</ul>
<p>and if you're from california, all of the above applies, except the average person</p>
<ul>
<li>thinks UC's are great</li>
<li>can't name all 9 undergrad UC's though</li>
<li>doesn't necessarily know that stanford's not in the ivy league</li>
<li>either worships USC or thinks of it with altered versions of "USC" ... could also possibly ask if USC is a UC</li>
</ul>
<p>finally... wake forest?! are u kidding me? no offense but that's not even really on the radar screen here on CC, so it definitely isn't on the radar screen of the average person (i guess maybe if you're from the south or if you're a basketball fan it might be). sorry wake. </p>
<p>the average person knows HYPSM, maybe a few others, perhaps berkeley (due to strong grad program) or their regional top colleges, or if they have a value/bias such as being a fan of sports. they definitely can't come up with your 7 tiers!</p>
<p>Cornell's not 3rd, it's high 2.</p>
<p>how about from the international perspective? many internationals do recognize schools like USC, NYU, Gerogetown, HYPS (DUH), but not Ivies or prestiigous schools like Dartmouth. UCs also seem to be highly recognized too..</p>
<p>I'm an intel, but I'm going to an American International school so my view might be skewed. </p>
<p>I'd say it depends on WHAT and WHO you view as the AVERAGE person. What age? What profession? I'd think parents who have children going through the college process would have an idea that UChicago and WUStL are good schools, while those who are out of the academic loop might still go with the whole Ivy hype.</p>
<p>let's see... the average person (really, an AVERAGE PERSON) probably</p>
<ul>
<li><p>hasn't heard of brown</p>
<p>wrong -- most have heard of brown</p></li>
<li><p>thinks penn is penn state</p>
<p>sometimes true</p></li>
<li><p>either thinks caltech is really good or has never heard of it</p>
<p>agree</p></li>
<li><p>has never heard of rice, emory, vandy, chicago and all those "mid-elites"</p>
<pre><code> these are the schools that often come up in conversation and leave an impression on people
</code></pre></li>
<li><p>has heard of UNC and notre dame; thinks certain athletic powerhouses are more prestigious or gets name-recognition based on sports</p>
<pre><code>true; however, many also assume that a lot of good sports schools are bad academic schools
</code></pre></li>
<li><p>doesn't know which schools are in the ivy league/can not name all 8 in the ivy league... ok fine doesnt even know that there are 8 schools in the ivy league</p>
<pre><code>wrong; ivy league schools, unlike some other good schools, are generally known
</code></pre></li>
<li><p>thinks stanford is in the ivy league</p>
<p>no, b/c most people know its in the pac 10 </p></li>
<li><p>doesnt know what a liberal arts college is</p>
<p>agree</p></li>
</ul>
<p>and if you're from california, all of the above applies, except the average person</p>
<p>finally... wake forest?! are u kidding me? no offense but that's not even really on the radar screen here on CC, so it definitely isn't on the radar screen of the average person (i guess maybe if you're from the south or if you're a basketball fan it might be). sorry wake. </p>
<pre><code> wrong: the ACC has a reputation as a good academic conference; most know wake's good
</code></pre>
<p>the average person knows HYPSM, maybe a few others, perhaps berkeley (due to strong grad program) or their regional top colleges, or if they have a value/bias such as being a fan of sports. they definitely can't come up with your 7 tiers!</p>
<pre><code> it's not that they come up with 7 tiers, it's that each tier marks a distinction in the way they regard schools
</code></pre>
<p>
[quote]
finally... wake forest?! are u kidding me? no offense but that's not even really on the radar screen here on CC, so it definitely isn't on the radar screen of the average person (i guess maybe if you're from the south or if you're a basketball fan it might be). sorry wake.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'd have to disagree with this. Even at my school and where I live still a lot of people know Wake Forest. And this is in Europe as well. In the South and East Coast I think it is pretty well known.</p>
<p>I feel the need to defend my school.</p>
<p>most people who dont know football havent even heard of the pac-10. until last year, when i started watching football games, did i learn about the different leagues.</p>
<p>also, most people have in fact not heard of berkely except in the context of the liberal 70's protest capital of the world.</p>
<p>i'm sorry but notre dame is not on par with duke, penn, georgetown, etc.</p>
<p>that's just insane.</p>
<p>nobody that i know and nobody near where i live (east coast) thinks Notre Dame is a good school. They recognize the name - just like people recognize the name "rutgers" or "Texas A&M" or "Tulane" - decent schools......but not prestigious or able to compete with the top schools in the nation.</p>
<p>Popularity doesn't equal prestige. So which one are you ranking?</p>
<p>ND is not a top 10 institution, but it is certainly Top 20. If that's not a great school, then what is?? There are more great colleges out there beyond the Ivies, buddy.</p>
<p>There were actually two gallup polls taken a few years ago that asked this question. The first poll asked randon people what they believed the "best" colleges in america were. I think the second poll involed people with a certain level of education. Not surprisingly, both polls put Harvard at number 1, but the lay person's poll had schools like Penn St., Notre Dame, and a few other surprising choices ranked very high. I've seen both polls on these boards a while back, so maybe someone could post them again. They're a pretty intersting, and probably fairly accurate way of showing nation wide prestige.</p>
<p>come on now, wharton school is first tier fo sho.</p>
<p>I'm still laughing at the name recognition you think the average person would give to CalTech!!!! LOL!!!!</p>
<p>9 out of 10 people would know MIT but think CIT means counselor in training and nobody up here in Albany know CalTech, I'm sorry, unless their really invested into the college search, college, or education as a whole. But the common person... CIT=Counselor in Training and nothing else. An engineering giant of 1,000 students in SoCal doesn't ring a bell.</p>
<p>please, ask an average person out there to name all the members in the ivy league. i still contend they don't know that there's even 8 schools in the ivy league. and a lot of the other good mid-elite schools will probably either get an "oh" response, either as if the person hasn't heard of it, or if the person has heard of it but doesn't know where to rank it among the colleges that he/she knows. </p>
<p>as for the ACC being a good academic conference, TRUE, but that's something WE know! the average person who doesn't follow sports doesn't know which schools are in the ACC and when named to them, won't be able to rank them "accurately." </p>
<p>i have a feeling we're not accurately defining "average person." i think a lot of us are overestimating what an average person knows. </p>
<p>
[quote]
There were actually two gallup polls taken a few years ago that asked this question. The first poll asked randon people what they believed the "best" colleges in america were. I think the second poll involed people with a certain level of education. Not surprisingly, both polls put Harvard at number 1, but the lay person's poll had schools like Penn St., Notre Dame, and a few other surprising choices ranked very high.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>this is the closest i could find (brief synopsis):
<a href="http://poll.gallup.com/content/default.aspx?ci=9109&pg=1%5B/url%5D">http://poll.gallup.com/content/default.aspx?ci=9109&pg=1</a></p>
<p>but i do remember watching that video too, and that's partially where my argument comes from. penn state was #5 in the northeast lay person's poll i think.</p>
<p>"Tier 1: HYPSM, Berkeley
Tier 2: Cornell, Columbia, Penn, Duke, Cal Tech
Tier 3: Georgetown, Notre Dame, Brown, Johns Hopkins, Rice
Tier 4: Northwestern, Vanderbilt, UCLA
Tier 5: University of Chicago, NYU, UNC
Tier 6: Boston College, Georgia Tech, Michigan
Tier 7: UVA, Wake Forest, William and Mary, USC"</p>
<p>UVA after UNC, BC, Georgia Tech, NYU, Vandy, UCLA, Rice, and even Notre Dame..
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA</p>
<p>look, think about it this way: if you told someone you went to Virginia that wouldn't alter their opinion of you at all; if you said you went to notre dame, they'd be like wow, you went to Notre Dame?!</p>
<p>I was a little surprised when I came to CC because of popularity of Berkeley. I grew up in Georgia, and I had barely heard of it, and I never thought it was a prestigious school. It was not like I had my head buried in the sand, I was aware of the big schools. I also had never heard of Caltech (but that's my disinterest in math/science, a friend of mine had known it though). If Berkley is a math/science school, that might explain it, but I don't know if I would say Berkeley is that big, at least in the South.</p>
<p>Also, I'd have to say that Notre Dame is a pretty prestigious school, maybe a rung below Georgetown, Duke, and Chicago, but it's still up there; I also think that Brown is not as well known as some think. Perhaps as one gets closer to Rhode Island or more familiar with the Ivy League it becomes more prestigious.</p>