@merc I see where you are getting those Bowdoin numbers, but the most current class has much higher numbers. And I don’t think you can add verbal and math at the 25th percentile and assume that is the total. For instance, I would bet, that a lot of the 650 verbal kids they accept have a much higher math score than 640 and vice versa.
To the OP, if she appplies to Bowdoin, I would not submit a 1370
@roycroftmom I don’t know what school your child went to, but unless it’s a very competitive school, most URMs aren’t getting in to Ivies with sub-1400 SATs. That’s a myth. UT honors with 1370… also not happening. I agree OP is applying to too many reach schools.
@suzy100 and @Eeyore123 Clearly I am naive about this whole process and obviously financial aid. I’m not afraid or ashamed to admit that I don’t know what I don’t know.
I came on this forum when my daughter was in 10th grade seeking advice and most said she was young and she needed to enjoy high school because she had “lots of time.” The application deadlines aren’t until Nov - Jan. That’s why I thought I’d get some feedback at this point, but now everyone is saying we’re behind.
It seems like that her taking the hardest classes in her school was for naught. She’s had 2 B’s her whole high school career by taking all the hardest courses at her school and as competitive as it is, she really should have been taking on-level courses the whole time because the only thing that’s going to matter is her 1370 sat score?
All the colleges on her list will basically look at her score and decide she is not worthy? Is that how college admissions work?
My mom still cleans hotel rooms and my dad just retired as a carpenter. My family may not be the most educated, but definitely hard working. I got pregnant while at SUNY Buffalo w/ her and since then have tried my best - first by getting her out of the horrible NYC public school system into one of the best school districts in DFW by working 7 days a week and now I make too much money for her to qualify for aid.
@collegemom3717 @NEPatsGirl what should be considered safety schools? Schools w/ admission rates > 50%?
@Sybylla I’ll take her to visit UT next month. Maybe a visit will change her mind about applying. She hasn’t applied yet but others have posted that even as UT honors, her 1370 SAT score will ruin her chances. I guess maybe I failed her by not getting her SAT prep, but will recommend that she uses the rest of the week prepping for the ACT.
@bouders @Itisatruth thank you so much for your input on women’s colleges. I spoke to her about it yesterday and she is a little more open to the idea 
@merc81 I’ll still be holding out hope for Bowdoin. I’m not sure why that school wasn’t on our radar when we visited the NE last year. Common app says that they strongly recommend interviews. I’ll have her reach out to a few students there and get some feedback.
Itsgettingreal17, I never claimed most URM were getting into Ivies, most of any group, including perfect score applicants, aren’t getting into Ivies. But yes, at our school, we have had successful URM applicants to MIT, Columbia, Dartmouth and Cornell last year with sub 1400 scores. So this student’s scores won’t necessarily keep her out. Higher would be better, but these are fine to be competitive.
A 1400 score would put this student in the top 1% of African Americans taking the SAT, and a 1300 keeps her in the top 3% of such test takers last year. The scores are fine. Make sure the school is affordable, and she should have excellent options.
@salma45 Please take a breath. Some of us are talking “CC speak” here. We can translate a bit of it.
Scores are just one aspect of a review for a top college. It’s holistic. That means they look at her entire app, not just scores or school stats. Rigor does matter (to many colleges, not all.) But the fact is, some colleges get a very high performing pool of applicants and that means competition for a spot. ECs also matter, as they represent choices and commitments through the hs years.
The applicant pool from Texas is strong. That adds to competition for top colleges, incl in the NE. But, in short, you want the best college for her and that leaves many choices. Bates and Colby (also in Maine) are test optional and very good schools, but a little less competitive to get into than Bowdoin. Bates is a “meet full need” college. There are many other TO colleges. And there are many where her scores fit nicely in range or toward the top.
But at the same time, you do apparently have a family contribution, so far, per your Fafsa, at 41k. Even MFN colleges add a little to that, when they process the CSS Profile (the other finaid form.)
We usually suggest not just looking for “top” colleges, per se. But the right colleges where a kid can fit and thrive and grow. That’s so many colleges.
@salma45, I totally get it. This process is complicated! It’s even harder when you are trying to manage it on your own. We all are hoping we can help you and your daughter.
Try to get a preliminary list in shape and then go to the website for each school and look for the link to their net price calculator. Then run the numbers and discard those from the list that are out of reach. Also look for test-optional schools- those may be a great avenue for your daughter. Ask questions here. We will help!
Student’s scores are at the very top of her demographic. She does not need test optional. She should apply for the 40 acres scholarship at UT, tho. That will be nice to have.
@roycroftmom I’m not saying that she is a shoo-in at any of the schools she is applying to. She is the by far the poorest, blackest, highest ranked student from her school. It’s a highly competitive public school and most of the people ranked above her are looking at TX schools. I’d hate to think that she needs to be applying to schools w/ > 50% admission rates. I don’t think that 1/2 of 12th graders across the country applying to 4-year colleges are outperforming my daughter. My boyfriend’s sister-in-law who went to Harvard UG and business school and helped w/ Harvard admission post-grad (not sure in what capacity) and his brother who went to Harvard UG and law school seem to think she has a pretty solid common app essay.
@lookingforward We have looked at Bates, and I think that it’ll be a good option as well. We’ll add it to the list as we’re narrowing it down. @suzy100 I’m willing to do whatever it means to make sure my daughter is successful; whether that means taking out a home equity loan or borrow from my retirement to help her through school, she’s all I have. I’m only 39 and have a lot of working years left in me.
@salma45 I would say that your immediate focus should be on he safety strategy. I would have a minimum of two. To be a true safety, 3 criteria have to be satisfied. 1) she has to have a very high chance of admission (>90%). 2) It has to be affordable with no financial aid except the federal loans (5.5k). 3) She has to be happy to attend. When you find two safeties, that should destress the process.
After she is done applying to the safeties, you can turn your attention back to match/reach schools. The first thing that you will have to determine is how her dad’s finances will affect your net price at profile schools. If they become unaffordable, her test scores and GPA don’t matter. The uncertainty of her dad’s finances is why I have no FA in the safety definition.
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I’d hate to think that she needs to be applying to schools w/ > 50% admission rates. I don’t think that 1/2 of 12th graders across the country applying to 4-year colleges are outperforming my daughter.[\quote]
OP - EVERY student needs to be applying to schools with +50% acceptance rates and a few auto admits or +75% acceptance rates. That’s what matches and safety schools are. And they need to be match/safeties not just academically but also financially.
This isn’t about 1/2 the 12th graders out performing your daughter. This is about your list being very reach heavy. The same top kids are applying to the same schools. There are thousands of high schools across the US and there valedictorians at every single one.
One of my daughter’s very good friends who had much higher stats than your daughter was rejected at every single reach school (including two where he was a legacy) and was lucky that the guidance counselor made him apply to a local safety as a back up. It was devastating for this student and he’s looking to transfer. If you saw his resume, you would have thought that he was a shoe in for at least 1/2 his list. His mom certainly thought so and she was still in tears at the end of the summer.
If the dad won’t pay anything, will he fill out the PROFILE forms? Otherwise don’t waste time on PROFILE schools. But, hurry up! This is already late October. Check on whether the dad will cooperate or have your daughter focus on FAFSA only schools. The PROFILE schools are unlikely to give a waiver if you know how to contact the dad.
@jym626 she has sent him links to fill out the financial forms. She has everything done more-or-less. It’s just hitting the final submit and some supplemental writing. We’re just trying to narrow the list.
@momofsenior1 and @Eeyore123 those are really good points and really good insight and I guess we’ll have to research and find safeties. We’re going to use this weekend after her ACT to work on finalizing the list.
University of Illinois 62%
University of Georgia 54%
University of Wisconsin 54%
These are some of the best universities in the world.
For me, the main issue you need to address is this:
Your EFC, excluding the non-custodial parent, is 41K. The dad pays $300/month in child support so I’m going to extrapolate from that and guess that he is low income and his financial information will not meaningfully up the numbers for CSS profile schools.
However, are you able to sustain 41K per year? If the answer is yes, then you can investigate highly competitive schools to determine what your daughter’s chances are. It sounds like your daughter is an excellent student with a near 4.0 unweighted average with high rigor and test scores that are strong for her demographic but a little bit low for the general applicant pool at top 20 competitive schools. So it is worth trying for some of those reaches, but again, only if they are affordable for you and you have some safeties/matches in the mix.
As an experiment, run the NPC for Stanford, Harvard, and Princeton. Those schools will offer a best case scenario as far as need-based aid is concerned. At least the “dream” school is among the most generous! You might also look at Vanderbilt and Chicago, which do not require the non-custodial parent’s information, I believe. Vanderbilt has generous merit scholarships, but they are extremely competitive to get.
As she is interested in LACs or smaller universities in the Northeast, she might want to look at schools like Clark U, Muhlenberg, or Ithaca College, all of which offer merit scholarships. Clark is a very interesting place that highlights diversity, both domestic and international. As mentioned above, women’s colleges might also be a good option - check out Mount Holyoke - they offer half-tuition and full-tuition merit scholarships. If the “Northeast” includes PA or OH. there are many options that would get you into a budget of 35-40K, assuming some merit aid - College of Wooster, Ursinus, Susquehanna, etc. Case Western might be a possibility; if she finds it of interest, she should try to apply in the non-binding EA round. Their merit scholarships go up to about 30K.
All of that said, qualifying for auto-admit at UT is an opportunity that many high performing students across the country would love to have. While she may not be thrilled with the idea of in-state, it is one of the best flagship public universities in the country. I would make that a “mom’s choice” so she has at least one affordable, high quality option in her pocket.
Finally, I don’t think that the UC system is good value for out of state students, especially if you have the option of UT. You’d likely get no aid and would be paying for large classes and impacted majors. If you’re going to pay more, I’d go for a good quality LAC or mid-sized university.
Best of luck - it sounds like you have worked very hard to ensure the best possible future for your daughter and she has also done her part. I’m sure that she will have many options.
p.s. In general, academically ambitious girls have a difficult time getting boys to take an interest in them, IME. College will be different, wherever she lands!
So the only real thing we can look at is usually stats of the matriculating class. It does give an idea of the gpa and score strengths- and the level of class competition once there. But the higher the tier of college, the more ‘rest of the picture’ those kids also have. At some colleges, nearly every app that gets past first cut is high GPA, high rigor, top scores and will have both depth and breadth in ECs, incl some related to the hoped-for major. Many will have vol work with responsibilities and impact, benefitting their local communities, regular work, not occasional hours. Some have research or intern work. Frankly, when faced with this reality, most of us, who deeply believe in our own kids, drop it down a notch. One of the things we have to recognize is that all those kids appling to Ivies also apply to the next tier, as their matches.
And each college has a flavor. Sometimes, as you realize, it’s location. Mostly, it has to do with what they value, the sorts of opportunities they offer and interactions they encourage. We look for that match, to satisfy our kids, but also, it helps us understand what sorts of kids they want and look for. That’s part of match, too.
And all the top or very good colleges in the NE will give a kid a good academic stretch, reasons to be proud of her degree, as well as have happy memories.
If you’re divorced, the NPCs won’t be accurate. Or self-employed. If Dad has income and assets, those will be added to the finaid calculation, regardless of helping his mother.
It helps to look at all this as glass half full, the challenge of finding the right- and viable- options.
Her list in post #8, even for a URM, is very top heavy. You say she is one of the poorest, blackest, smartest… in her grade. But you don’t qualify for any need based aid? Are you looking at schools with no-loan policies (I know you said she wants out of Tx, but Rice just instituted one) and other schools other than NE elites (Tulane, Colby, Davidson, etc). And FWIW, I think she would THRIVE at a womens’ college, where she would be encouraged to speak her voice and engage in critical thinking/discussion without the social pressures.
Admission rates >50% don’t necessarily mean either that the school is of poor quality or that the applicants are representative of the 4-year-college applicant pool in general. My kid just got back from visiting Mount Holyoke, which has an RD admissions rate of a hair over 50%, and she adored it - particularly how smart and engaged and friendly the students were.
If you’re open to suggestions, might I suggest that “best” be defined by fit, not just reputation / ranking? So mine wanted, more or less in order of importance:
- academically challenging
- students who like to learn for the sake of learning
- collaborative rather than competitive (no “Penn face” / “Stanford duck” syndrome, no reputation for stress culture or “I’m so busy / stressed / burdened by homework / worried about not getting the most-competitive internship” one-upmanship. Some people thrive in that environment; she hates it.)
- at least as much ethnic diversity as her high school, with a higher-than-average representation of her particular demographic
- 4 years of classes in Chinese language
- no (or only nominal) religious affiliation
- reasonable chance of acceptance (she is super risk-averse, which obviously is not your kid’s situation)
- neither enormous nor tiny
- walkable (no car required, either on campus or to do at least some stuff off-campus)
- no strong smoking / drinking / wild party culture (no “work hard / play hard”)
- plus for any / all of: self-contained, four seasons, lots of shade trees, good food, nice dorms, the ability to easily continue swimming recreationally
If your daughter were to come up with a similar list of what she’s looking for and what she wants to avoid, what might it include?
OP, we don’t know your income, but a 41k Fafsa EFC implies it’s high. If not, have you checked to be sure there were no mistakes, no data entered in a wrong section or a number mis-typed?
The issue with NPC for the Ivies is they have a very high income number for which they still offer generous aid. It can be misleading when applying elsewhere.
I just hope that you just haven’t been oversold on a story on how the URM story is a shoo in. You need to get her applying to UT as soon as she has done this ACT at the weekend. If her Texas high school is so competitive she is indeed very fortunate to be top 6% with b’s on her transcript. It is hard to be in the top 6% of really great Texas high schools. Make sure you have that confirmed?
I would concur on checking the fafsa. 41K does NOT match your backstory of the poorest kid at school.
So as per above, reaches, go for it, but your safety option of UT is unbeatable. YOU need to have her complete that application. You don’t have time to finesse lists, you need to be submitted ASAP. .