Need help with a college list

College Search & Selection
1

Hi! I need some help with finding colleges that would be a good fit for my daughter. I have no experience with undergrad education in the States and I don’t know the nuances of college admission here, so I really would appreciate any help with putting all the puzzle pieces together. My daughter is a high-achieving, hard-working intellectual kid, but she is interested in too many different things and does not have a very good idea about her future. She is very likely to get a postgrad degree, so I think she needs to get through undergrad quickly and inexpensively and focus on finding the school of her dream for postgrad, once she knows what her goals are. But she wants to get into the best school she could get in now. The main criteria are: intellectually stimulating environment, strong STEM focus and good merit aid. Here is what we have to work with.

Stats:
SAT 1530 (with minimal prep, so she wants to retake it)
GPA 4.57 (W)
Top 4% at the big public school
PSAT at the last year cut-off, so not taking it into account for now
3 APs: Human Geography (5), World History (5), English (no score yet), taking AP Chemistry & AP Economics next year
Full IB diploma candidate: HL English, HL Spanish, HL Chemistry, SL Physics, SL Environmental Studies, SL Calculus
Intended major: biochemistry
ECs: good range, but no spectacular achievements

  • NHS
  • Orchestra (cello) (9-12), Asian-American Youth Orchestra (9)
  • History club (9-12) (3d place at the State History Fair)
  • Spanish club (9-12) (2nd & 3d places at the state competitions)
  • Sound tech for several school plays (self-taught)
  • Good amount of volunteering through school and church, including work camps in low-income areas
  • Leadership Training for Christ through church for 10 years, but no real leadership positions
  • Research project on soil condition at the local National parks, but no other STEM ECs

Demographics:
White female, half-Russian (if that even matters)
Family income ~ 100 K, needs merit aid

Wish List:

  • Ivy ambitions: GC thinks she has a chance, but I am not so sure (mainly because of ECs and lack of passion for one specific area). She definitely feels like all that hard work at school should not be just for getting into an average college. So, top 100, may be?
  • Good merit aid
  • Preferably LACs, but state schools are not out of the question
  • True college experience
  • Preferably out of state (Texas), not in the South and not Alabama
  • Urban or suburban
  • Size does not matter, but comfortable for an introvert
  • Flexible curriculum, she does not want to be limited just to major-specific courses
  • More conservative than liberal
  • Not preppy
  • No interest in sports, Greek life and partying
  • No strong religious affiliation (unless it is Church of Christ)
  • Options to continue to play cello
  • Wants to continue studying Spanish
  • Research opportunities at the natural science museum
  • Safe for a kid with no independent living skills
  • Access to cultural life (concerts, theaters, museums)

List of schools so far:
UTD (safety): It made the list only because it is almost a guaranteed admission and good chance of merit aid and it is the only school we can afford even without merit aid. However, it is the “last resort” school in my daughter’s eyes.
UT Austin (match): She is likely to be an auto-admit and is fine with going there, but it is not affordable without at least some merit aid and I doubt she is going to get any from there.
University of Oregon: I don’t even know why it is on the list, except it was recommended by friend’s parents and this friend is considering going there.
Yale

I really appreciate any suggestions and advise!

2

You’re going to have a tough time meeting all your criteria, because there are come conflicts. For example, most elite colleges near urban areas not in the south are going to lean left politically.

The first few schools that jumped to mind were:

Indiana U …safe, big theater/music school with lots of concerts, not extremely liberal, not real preppy; but big greek scene, sports, moderately intellectual.

Northwestern… safe, enormous array of concerts & museums on & off campus, could probably get financial aid for need, sports & greek scene are there but are low-key compared to other colleges, lots of brainy introverts, suburban, quarter system gives lots of opportunity to explore a variety of areas, great STEM; but leans left, no merit aid (but you’d prob get need aid).

Something in the Boston area, which is relatively safe, has tons of museums & concerts, sports & greek scene generally low key, fairly manageable for a big city (very compact with good mass transit); but only school that comes close to being balanced politically is Boston College, which is Catholic & preppy.

3

Thank you for your suggestions! I do realize that it would be very hard to meet all the criteria and the wish list is just that - my daughter’s (and some of mine) preferences. A lot of these preferences are negotiable, except for financial aid and strong academics and intellectual atmosphere. Will definitely look at Northwestern.

4

I agree that it’s going to be tough to find something that hits all of those points. Which ones are the most important? I’m wondering if she’d be willing to look at some of the Jesuit colleges like Creighton (Omaha), Seattle U, Loyola Marymount, etc… just thinking that a lot of them are located in cities (as opposed to the midwestern state schools), and a bit more conservative than the small LACs. Or something like St Olaf, which is Lutheran but has kids of all denominations, although St Olaf also is an hour from the twin cities so that might be too rural for her.

5

How much are you willing to pay per year?

Some of the really elite schools have so much money that their idea of who needs “need” aid can be surprising.

6

The most important ones are strong academics, merit aid and not at home (Dallas). Religious preference is more of my issue than hers. I really don’t want her to be at a school where she may be heavily influenced by any single denomination or required to take religion classes. Colleges where different religious groups are represented are fine. Thank you for your suggestions!

7

We can do may be 10K a year plus whatever she can get in subsidized loans.

8

I would say you daughter would be an excellent match for Boston college. No greek life. Not conservative but definitely not super liberal. Very selective and smart undergrads. Great pre health counseling. And meets full financial need. No merit though. Only 15 Gabelli scholarships. No honors college any more though. Found the difference top to bottom was too close. Avg act of 33 and sat of 1450 this year admitted. Great campus and in a great city for college they do count your home equity in their css aid form.

9

Thank you!

10

look into davidson, wake forest, and claremont mckenna. wake forest gives merit aid, but claremont mckenna and davidson do not. however, if your annual income is $100K, i think your daughter will qualify for significant need-based aid. if she’s okay with looking into a more liberal-leaning school in a “remote” (for lack of a better word) area, give amherst a try. it doesn’t give out merit-based scholarships, but it is known for being generous in terms of financial aid. it also has an open curriculum.

the only liberal arts colleges i can think of that give out significant merit aid off the top of my head are grinnell, oberlin, macalester, and kenyon. macalester is in st. paul. maybe she could give that one a try as well.

**edit: look into the university of rochester and denison university.

11

Case Western Reserve has generous merit and extensive opportunities for research involvement and graduate-level coursework. U of Rochester is a good one to look at as well. Also USC. Rensselaer would also give her significant merit, and would give her all the depth and rigor she is looking for. U of Pittsburgh also has good merit and good STEM.

How does she feel about women’s colleges? She would likely be offered half-tuition merit at Scripps (where she could do a science major through Keck Science, the joint science department of Scripps, Claremont McKenna, and Pitzer, and take classes at Harvey Mudd and Pomona). Mudd itself would be a fit academically and has some merit aid - definitely worth a try, as its Core would be a great foundation for her to figure out what direction she wants to go in.

Smith is also very strong in STEM and has merit scholarships (and cross-registration throughout the 5 College Consortium including UMass Amherst, Amherst College, Hampshire, and Mt. Holyoke, which is even more generous with merit than Smith but isn’t quite as STEMmy.)

12

@Alikath writes: We can do may be 10K a year plus whatever she can get in subsidized loans.

I highly recommend making a spreadsheet with estimated costs for each year, for each school you are considering. Tuition, fees, room and board, books, travel expenses & round UP.

The room and board alone at some schools will eat up your budget. Use the Net Price Calculator (NPC) at each school’s web site. Unless costs are frozen for all four years, the costs will go up x% each year. I used 3% in my spreadsheet.

We had a budget similar to yours, but without affordable in-state options. UIUC had, at that time, an estimated COA of $30K per year.

We ran the NPC at some schools and were shocked by how much we were expected to pay. Sure, some NPC’s slashed the COA for us, but the bottom line, discount or not, many schools were unaffordable.

We had to hunt for big merit aid, and that meant stocking up the application list with a lot of schools our D felt were “beneath her”. These were primarily big OOS flagships offering full tuition and full tuition plus scholarships.

It can come as a great shock to applicants to realize they worked very hard in HS and are qualified for acceptance to top schools, but cannot attend because the family cannot afford it.

Use the NPC. Let your kid know what the budget is ASAP. Every school on her final application list should be a school that is affordable.

13

Midwest67, if you don’t mind me asking, where did your daughter end up going and how does she feel about it now? I I just wish my daughter gave UTD a chance. I did NPC at several schools and they all came up with COA at least twice as much as what we can afford.

14

Yes, it’s really difficult to find merit that will bring total COA down to 10K.

I encourage you to look closely at CWRU. They do have full-tuition merit scholarships, and I think your daughter could have a good shot at one. And it’s a very highly-regarded university. If the same school were in Boston or another in-demand city for students, they wouldn’t need to entice students with merit scholarships. Cleveland isn’t a bad place to go to school; it just isn’t a “draw” like the major coastal cities are. Yet, it isn’t in the south like so many of the big-merit schools are; and you note that your daughter is hoping for a non-southern college experience.

USC does give some full-tuition merit scholarships also.

I know you said Not Alabama… but are you aware of UA Huntsville? It’s a smaller school than the main campus in Tuscaloosa, and very STEM-focused. Huntsville is in the northern part of the state, near the TN border (closer to Nashville than to Tuscaloosa). It is a major hub of the aerospace industry and is known for having a ridiculously high concentration of PhD’s, and quite a bit of diversity. UAH has no football, and both sports and Greek life are much less prominent than at UA Tuscaloosa. It’s known for being much more of a “nerd school.” If I didn’t want to be somewhere stereotypically “southern,” I would far rather be in Huntsville than in Dallas; and academically UAH would be a better fit for your daughter’s strengths than UTD. With her stats, she would get full ride merit. It truly would be a worthy financial safety for her.

15

Run the net price calculators at Loyola University (New Orleans), University of New Mexico and Hendrix (Arkansas - not an ideal location.) These schools are likely to offer a package within your price range.

Loyola and UNM might also give a music scholarship on top of merit aid if she wants to continue her instrument in college.

UTD is an awesome school, my eldest son was accepted and several of his friends attend. It has a large Asian American and Indian American student body, so lends itself to a more conservative atmosphere. The music aspect for your cello playing daughter will be slim pickings, but the academics are stellar.

As a fellow Texan, I understand the frustration of finding affordable options of high caliber in the state. We’re starting the process again with our youngest son now, it’s not fun.

16

Aquapt, thank you for the suggestions! I’ll definitely look into CWRU. I have heard of UA Huntsville and may be I can convince my daughter to give it a second look. It is just this whole “I want to get as far away from home as I can” thing. It is not that she has something against the southern states, but South is the only thing she know and she wants to try something different.

17

@Alikath

Our D went to a small private HS in an affluent suburb (on scholarship!) and there was almost no talk of affordability. Her school had a dedicated college counselor and I don’t know if the counselor thought we were poor or what, but D’s application list was not realistic $$-wise.

I came here to College Confidential and found out that D’s National Hispanic Scholar designation (based on the PSAT), in addition to her ACT score, qualified her for full tuition and full tuition plus scholarships at a variety of big OOS flagships. She did NOT want to go to any of them!

When we met with the college counselor, the counselor nudged her to tell me she wanted to add three more schools to her list; all of them were more or less prestigious privates. I was taken off-guard. I didn’t think they were affordable, but I wasn’t sure.

I ran the NPC on them, and forgot to look at Years 2, 3, & 4 when we would have only 1 in college, not 2. Then, I forgot to add in H’s bonuses and a projected increase in income. So, the NPC spat out a number that was out of budget, but maybe within reach if we borrowed more than we were comfortable with, and if everything went well for the next ten years (perfect health, raises every year, unicorns falling from the sky with bags of money).

Under pressure, I did not veto D’s application list. And, frankly, I thought her #1 school would not accept her. Let the school do the dirty work! Ah, but you’ve guessed it, right? She was accepted.

That’s when I got serious and sat down with the NPC and my spreadsheet and realized my mistakes mentioned earlier. When I ran the NPC with one in school instead of two, what they were asking us to pay was C-R-A-Z-Y. So, sure maybe we could have swung Year One, but those next three years? No. way. It would be financial suicide.

I had a couple days where I was so swept up in SHE GOT IN! WE HAVE TO MAKE THIS WORK! drinking the Kool-Aid like mad, thinking of borrowing dangerous amounts of money, just nuts. Then the fever broke and I told D she couldn’t go; it was not affordable.

She was really angry at us. I mean, really angry. I think she thought if she got in, we’d find a way. She did not understand what kind of debt it would require. No sense of money. She had a lot of trouble accepting our budget.

To add salt to her wounds, five kids from her school were accepted to her #1 choice and she is only one who did not matriculate. Then, two of her friends from very low income families got incredible offers from Top 20s, and attended.

She felt like she was the only kid on a budget and the only kid who did not get to choose her school. I tried to explain that we are not poor, but we cannot afford our EFC. In her little world, she did not know a single person in our situation. She saw that all the top students at her HS were going to top schools. She felt ashamed.

It was not easy on her. Some of my friends say “At least she knows she was accepted”. I don’t know if that makes it easier or not. I think I would’ve preferred we stuck to our guns and pulled off all the unaffordable schools on her application list.

Anyways, sorry so long, but when Spring rolled around, we had two affordable options on the table that had not yet been vetoed by her. She vetoed U of Alabama, refusing to visit. She reluctantly agreed to attend U of Kentucky.

Over the summer, she got a serious boyfriend here at home. She was NOT happy to be going off to college and leaving him behind, and she wasn’t excited about her college. She came home every few weeks to see him, she asked to transfer (uh, no), she complained about the quality of the other students and the quality of her classes. Nothing was good about the school. She hated it.

The best thing we did was to keep our mouth shut and not try to convince her to like the school (you are there to get your degree and make the most of it) and we were not rah-rah about UK in front of her.

By the end of freshman year, she had broken up with the boyfriend back home. By time it was basketball season, she was all WOW, it’s kind of…cool here! She applied to, and was accepted into a pre-professional major that was not even on her radar when she was looking at colleges in HS. She was invited to apply to a undergrad fellowship program, did, and was accepted. Her grades were excellent. She arranged to live with a couple other girls off-campus for the following year. She asked if she could take the extra car back with her.

She just finished her sophomore year. Another great year academically, with more opportunities popping up. No more complaints about the school or the quality of the other students or classes. She is not coming home for the summer. She has a job at the hospital, she has her apartment with those same girls, and has a core group of friends staying over in Lexington for the summer. She sends us texts with pictures of her doing fun things with friends. She has built a life for herself at the school she was forced to attend.

So, senior year of HS and freshman year of college was NOT a happy, fun experience. But, it’s good now.

She is at UK on a full tuition scholarship that includes a stipend for room and board. Those kinds of scholarships are not common, and I hope one day she realizes how fortunate we all are. We do have to pay about $2100 for her health insurance per year, and we have to pay taxes on her room and board stipend at the parent’s tax rate. If you have a tight budget, be mindful of those expenses too.

You can show your D how to run the NPC and let her help find schools that are in budget. Be kind, but firm.

18

Check out merit opportunities at Michigan State too. The students I know there have phenomenal research opportunities, and a great quality of life. Great STEM school.
https://admissions.msu.edu/cost-aid/merit-based-aid/freshman/high-achieving.aspx
https://honorscollege.msu.edu/

19

Jadedhaven, I agree that there are a lot of good things about UTD. It really would be my first choice right now. I think my daughter’s main objection to it is that she is not going to get a true college experience there. Good luck with your son!

20

Midwest 67, thank you for sharing your story. It is very encouraging. I did tell my daughter that she is going to go wherever she gets the best aid from. I am not comfortable with borrowing loads of money, especially since she has very unrealistic career plans right now and very little common sense and we have a younger child who is only a couple of years behind her and who is not going to have the same scholarship opportunities that she does. It is just all she hears right now from people around her is “You’ll be eligible for a bunch of scholarships with your grades” and “Everybody borrows money to go to college”. She went to a college fair and the main thing she got from there is that private colleges have such great financial aid that it is cheaper to go there than to your local school. I do want her to feel like we at least explored all the options, because she really has worked very hard and deserves to go to a good school. But I do believe that it is possible to find opportunities at any school.