I’m currently a rising junior trying to prepare for admissions.
I know that admission at elite colleges is partially luck based, so I want to apply to a few really good schools that have a little more reasonable admissions rates.
What computer science colleges with a 15-25% admissions rate have the best facilities, teachers, and reputation?
Thanks
Probably the state flagship schools will be your best bet - Texas, Virginia, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Maryland, Florida, Washington, along with Purdue and UCSD, etc. Berkeley and UCLA wii probably be under 15%. However note that many of those schools have multiple programs, either direct admit which will be harder to get into, or you have to run another gauntlet with lower division classes to actually get into the major, which is generally speaking easier to get into. And chances are that OOS tuition rates for these schools will probably be around the same as private schools with lower chances of financial aid.
Choosing a school based on its selectivity will tell you nothing about the college experience or about the value of your education. It is simply a measure of one thing, popularity. Is it popular due to ranking, which in itself has issues, as the ranking methodology may not jive with what is important to you? Is it popular because it is a great value? In a great location?
You’re far better off vetting schools based on a list of things important to you. You might actually find that some you really like are not selective at all.
Good luck.
What does admissions rate have to do with anything?
The most recent admissions rates at schools like NYU, BU, Lehigh, or Northeastern are probably in that range. However, as noted in previous posts, this is a foolish way to screen for schools. For example, schools like RPI, WPI, Stevens, or Santa Clara would be roughly comparable in term of CS facilities, teachers, and reputation, even though they have >25% acceptance rates.
The admission rate method is probably flawed, as mentioned above. But the idea of adding more schools to the list has merit. Kudos to you for doing some research now. Lots of good hints in these threads.
I’d like to present a counter point to some of the previous posts. Nothing wrong with using an initial screen for schools, like a certain band of admission rates. There will be plenty of schools that make it through that filter. One can then look at the characteristics of the schools themselves, seeing which ones better match one’s interests (specific majors, school size, urban or not, fraternities or no, etc.).
There are many ways to run a search for schools. Nothing wrong with starting from an admissions perspective. If you follow the reach/match/safety framework, then admissions rates are a fine basis for filtering schools.
@sfSTEM, what value does this add?
Personally, I think the reach/match/safety angle is not helpful at all. Certainly, having a school(s) one knows they’ll get into (safety), is paramount. Also knowing when not to get your hopes up is also important. The problem is the system presumes an order, with reach being the best. I see no solid evidence that a schools admission rate makes it de facto better. To give a concrete example, my son agonized until near the deadline between three schools with these three acceptance rates, 76%, 50% and 15%. It made absolutely no difference when he vetted schools.
Maybe it’s this: “reach being the best”. I’m a fan of Frank Bruni’s “Where You Go Is Not Who You’ll Be”. We’re still 3.5 years from my first kid facing the college application process. But for his private high school apps, we stressed fit over prestige. And that’s determined the school he’s going to.
If you abstract out “reach being the best” and instead focus on probabilities, then it makes sense to understand likelihood you’ll get into any given school. It’s less, “this one is hard to get into so it’s the best one for me”. Instead, it’s being aware of probabilities for different schools that would be a fit and planning accordingly.
At least, that’s the way I look at it.
@sfSTEM
Behind the assumption of selectivity as some measure of quality there are a better set of questions you can ask. You can tailor a long list of questions customized to fit your actual goals. The data to answer your more directly framed questions are often, but not always, available on the college/university websites.
For example:
Do they offer majors in all the areas of study I am considering?
What other fields relate to my major interests?
Once admitted, can I change majors?
In what subject area would I like to minor?
Are secondary school records of my fellow students similar to mine?
What do I enjoy doing in my off-study time?
What are the job/salary prospects of the graduates in my field of choice?
Do I want to study abroad?
Is graduate school required for my major?
How can I pay for it and what does it actually cost the average student to attend?
Do I want ROTC? It pays.
There are actually universities and colleges out there you never have heard of which will out-perform more famous ones based on your own selection criteria. This is an appropriate research exercise for the aspiring professional. You may start by questioning assumptions and collecting data to help design a solution.
There is a little discussed process out there called “self-selection.” Whether or not you have heard of these highly selective universities, weaker students generally do not apply to Harvard (6% admitted), Haverford (24.7%) , Olin (8.8%), Carleton College (22.8%), Oberlin (32.7%), Webb Institute (33%) or Curtis School of Music (4.9%). Traditional STEM universities in particular are very self-selective as their student bodies focused on math calculus early in their educational careers. Think of your own classmates with the math/ science focal points in their studies. They represent a self selected group that is not just looking for some kind of college degree to find employment. They tend to be highly focused (some might say driven)! These students apply to MIT, Caltech, RPI, Stevens Institute of Technology,CMU, Colorado School of Mines, RPI, WPI, Clarkson University, Rice University, Rose Hulman, Case Western Reserve, NJIT, VPI, et al. I suspect, but do not know, that the GPA profile of engineering majors at Cal Poly SLO, Purdue, Michigan, et al are a notch more competitive than their general university population because of the self-selecting nature of the majors.
CS majors are often more selective on admissions than some other majors. CMU is an outstanding University, but CS and Drama are the two standouts most in demand. This is one example of why you want to focus on acceptance to a major and not just on the overall university acceptance rate.
Here is the 2017 list of WPI CS job placements showing average accepted salaries, employers selected by graduates and graduate schools selected by graduates. Please note that high starting BS salaries tend to delay trips to graduate school. Graduate school is often attended later with employer assistance. See page 19 of https://www.wpi.edu/student-experience/career-development/outcomes
You might want to hunt around and check out related majors. According to the WPI CDS 2017-2018, 76.78% of the entering class had GPAs>3.75. WPI is a “test optional” university which focuses on “holistic” admissions which shifts focus toward GPA, individual project work and ECs. See https://www.wpi.edu/search/google/CDS%202017-18#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=CDS%202017-18&gsc.sort=
For discussion on holistic admissions see http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/sat-act-tests-test-preparation/2084255-why-test-optional-admissions.html#latest on this website.
Try some others.
I hope this is helpful.
WPI '67
Thanks @retiredfarmer. Although I think you wanted to direct your answer to @scrublife2020. My decision process back in 1986 was simple: I was in-state for UVA, got in early decision and was done.
@asSTEM Thank you for the correction!
Don’t assume that selective is better. Choosing a college based on selectivity is like buying a car based on the FM radio. CS is very employable and almost all of your education will be on the job. Prestige has few, if any advantages in computers. Cost comes above brand name. Out of state is triple the cost of going in-state. Private schools are even more expensive. Parents are expected to pay the difference or pass it onto to you in the form of massive co-signed loans. That will cripple you for a very long time. Your best option is to base your search on what scholarship money you can get.
I learned about this AITU list too late to help on engineering school research. But it includes many we found (the hard way). Over a few years (including detours during vacations / family visits) we visited 8 of those schools, and our Olin son applied to 6 of them.
https://theaitu.com - at the link, the school list has hyperlinks to school websites
CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY (CALTECH)
CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY (CMU)
CASE WESTERN RESERVE UNIVERSITY
CLARKSON UNIVERSITY
THE COOPER UNION
EMBRY-RIDDLE AERONAUTICAL UNIVERSITY
FRANKLIN W. OLIN COLLEGE OF ENGINEERING
HARVEY MUDD COLLEGE
ILLINOIS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
KECK GRADUATE INSTITUTE
KETTERING UNIVERSITY
LAWRENCE TECHNOLOGICAL UNIVERSITY
MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY (MIT)
MILWAUKEE SCHOOL OF ENGINEERING
POLYTECHNIC INSTITUTE OF NYU
RENSSELAER POLYTECHNIC INSTITUTE (RPI)
ROCHESTER INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY (RIT)
ROSE HULMAN INSTITUTE
STEVENS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
WEBB INSTITUTE
WORCESTER POLYTECHNIC INSTITUTE (WPI)
Is there a particular field of CS that interests you, such as games, computational biology, computational linguistics, or computer graphics? If so, look for schools that offer those kinds of classes and specializations. I’d go to the #100 school if it had a specialization track I liked over the #10 school that didn’t.
^^True That.