Best strategies for evaluating offers/acceptances?

Paying for College
1

<p>I'm helping my niece though the process. She's an only child, single parent, and very low income with no family assets. She will need almost a full-ride and would like to leave college with less than $40K in loans; it will be a lot harder for someone in her income bracket to climb out of debt. (Not a whine, just a reality check for us.) Her applications are in -- 11 in total, including 10 small LACs and one smaller state school in Mass. where she has full tuition covered because of the Abigail Adams scholarship. She has four reaches and the rest we believe are matches and safeties. At the end of the day, I'd be thrilled if she landed up with five acceptances.</p>

<p>She's not in the top-tier of CC kids: 2030 SAT 1 with very low math score, 3.75 UW, several AP classes junior and senior year (but no Calculus), captain of Xcountry, president of student govt, pt-job, and a couple of other school clubs.</p>

<p>SO, HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS:</p>

<p>1.) I'm trying to convince her to apply to one or two others schools (St. Lawrence, Ursinus, Wooster, or St. Mikes) with February app dates just so she has more packages to compare but, I think, she's reached her limit and she's resisting. I'll keep pushing but I don't know even know if this is good advice. Is it? I understand why the "more is better" strategy (assuming the student likes the schools a lot) might be helpful for students applying for merit aid, but what about those needing a lot of fin aid? </p>

<p>2.) How do you best compare offers? What are the questions we should be asking as she hears back from schools?
-- Do all schools treat a combination of merit and grant and student loans the same way? For instance, she received her first acceptance from an Early Action school today and received $14,500 in merit. When she gets her grant money, will this be added to the $14,500? I've told her that it's wonderful that she received that scholarship but, until we hear back about grants in late march, it's meaningless. </p>

<p>-- How do we understand the full costs? Tuition, room and board, and fees seem obvious. How much do we budget for books? What else do we need to consider other than travel?</p>

<p>-- Should I call the schools to ask how they handle study abroad? This may be impossible for her to do financially but do schools have different policies about what is covered/not covered from fin aid? During a few of our visits, they made it sound as if they did. What would you ask?</p>

<p>-- What else should I be considering or thinking about when it comes to evaluating the packages?</p>

<p>3.) Lastly, and unrelated to fin aid, how much weight did you give to the 6-yr graduation rates when making a final decision. Some of these schools are in the 70% to 80% range and that seems awful.</p>

2

<p>one smaller state school in Mass. where she has full tuition covered because of the Abigail Adams scholarship</p>

<p>you need to look into this. “full tuition” covered by that scholarship is misleading. Tuition at state schools in Mass is low. The “fees” are VERY high and aren’t covered by the scholarship. This is shocking to many people. The schools are restricted from raising tuition, so they get around it by have super high fees. </p>

<p>There is a FA pkg comparison link that Happymom has. Hopefully she’ll link it here.</p>

<p>I would first look at tuition, fees, room and board costs (including looking at room and board options and their costs) for each school. These are basic costs. Books are also basic costs but those can be more economically purchased by buying online or buying used (estimate about 700-1000 per year).</p>

<p>Some schools have both “university fees” (health fee, rec center fees, technology fee, etc) and “course fees” (fees associated with each course). </p>

<p>Then I’d look at “free money” from each school (grants and scholarships). </p>

<p>Then look at the self-help…loans and work study.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that work study generally goes for “day to day” expenses since it’s paid out in paychecks like a job as the student works, so it really can’t pay for direct school costs. </p>

<p>After that, look to see how much the above aid is covering of the basic costs. </p>

<p>A summer job can help cover any small gaps.</p>

<p>Costs like “personal expenses” and transportaton will vary in each school’s COA so try to compare apples with apples. However, if one school will require higher tranportation costs, then take that into acct. But if one school is only listing 1000 for personal expenses, while another is listing 3000, then try to estimate one realistic number for all schools. Much will depend on how thrifty the student is.</p>

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<p>*-- Do all schools treat a combination of merit and grant and student loans the same way? For instance, she received her first acceptance from an Early Action school today and received $14,500 in merit. When she gets her grant money, will this be added to the $14,500? I’ve told her that it’s wonderful that she received that scholarship but, until we hear back about grants in late march, it’s meaningless. *</p>

<p>For sure, her Pell grant will get added to that. Whether her schools give her more grants depends on whether they are known for giving good aid. It sounds like she’ll have a 0 EFC. </p>

<p>What are the reps for these schools regarding aid? If they don’t meet need, then it may be very hard for them not to gap your niece since she needs full aid. What mean is, if she were to have a 20k EFC, then it’s easier for a school to meet or almost meet her need. For a full need student, it can meen 200K in aid for four years. That’s a lot for a school that doesn’t promise to meet need.</p>

<p>Loans will already be in her FA pkgs so she won’t be able to borrow to cover any gaps.</p>

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<p>Here’s the link: [FinAid</a> | Calculators | Award Letter Comparison Tool](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Award Letter Requirements - Finaid)</p>

<p>There are two versions of this tool. The short one has lines for figures, and the longer one has additional lines for other variables like distance, size of school, etc. that can be important for some students. The FinAid website is just chock-full of useful information. Do encourage your niece and her mom to read through it when they have the time and energy to do so.</p>

5

<p>One thing we looked at is the cost increases each college has had over the past couple of years. Given the high cost of college, an increase of 4-5% a year really makes a difference over four years.</p>

<p>Also, I don’t think the graduation rate is unrelated to financial aid. I know many merit scholarships are only good for eight semesters. There are also sometimes minimum GPA standards that can be hard to meet, so look carefully at those. It is pretty important that your niece go in with a solid plan to stay on track to graduate in four years if at all possible, since going beyond that will increase her loan amounts, too. You might want to continue to lend a hand in this area with her next year to make sure she is on track to select a major and meet all of her requirements on time. I would also be wary of schools where students have trouble getting registered for classes they need (and therefore that is one reason for low graduation rates). Might be hard info to figure out, but you could find some info out here on CC. And have her talk to her academic advisor about it during freshman year to make sure she knows of any potential bottlenecks there.</p>

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<p>Thank you for all of this info and to OP for asking! I will use this too!</p>

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<p>Be sure to look up the breakdown between tuition and fees at that Mass public. At all the publics the fees are high…about $5k-9k per year. The scholarship does not cover those fees. </p>

<p>This cost of several thousand dollars often hits families like a ton of bricks when they think their scholarship will leave them with only room, board and books to pay…and then they get hit with a HUGE fees bill.</p>

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<p>Mom2collegekids wrote: </p>

<p>"Be sure to look up the breakdown between tuition and fees at that Mass public. At all the publics the fees are high…about $5k-9k per year. The scholarship does not cover those fees. </p>

<p>This cost of several thousand dollars often hits families like a ton of bricks when they think their scholarship will leave them with only room, board and books to pay…and then they get hit with a HUGE fees bill."</p>

<p>I agree with this completely, and the fees are much higher than you quoted. Of the total current cost to live on campus at UMass Amherst of about $23K/yr, the Adams scholarship only gives a student something like $2k/year. It’s a small discount, not what most people think.</p>

<p>I would suggest that your niece add an application to a state university or college that is close enough to her home that she can commute there. This school would probably be a true safety, as she could pay the tuition/fees with a student loan and a part-time job. Hopefully, she’ll get the aid she needs at one of the other places to make it affordable, but I think you want to make sure she has at least one choice come spring.</p>

<p>Best wishes, and congrats to you for helping her through the process.</p>

9

<p>I agree with this completely, and the fees are much higher than you quoted. Of the total current cost to live on campus at UMass Amherst of about $23K/yr, the Adams scholarship only gives a student something like $2k/year. It’s a small discount, not what most people think.</p>

<p>Yes. I was concerned when the OP wrote: “full tuition covered” when in reality the scholarship doesn’t cover much at all since the “fees” are much, much higher than tuition.</p>

<p>Where can one find a breakdown of the Mass schools tuition and fees?</p>

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<p>For starter, list the official COAs for the schools. Then list what she has received so far. That leaves what cost is left. That is all that matters: what the student and family has to pay. All the awards, scholarships up to the whazooi mean nothing without that bottom line. I know it was sobering to me when my son got over $30K for one school, but it barely covered half that cost. </p>

<p>What is the FAFSA EFC estimate at this point? Are any of the schools PROFILE schools,and if they are, do any of them guarantee to meet full need? If you can run a NPC at a school that guarantees to meet full need and has no merit aid, that will give you some idea what a school like that is going to give in terms of need based aid. It only goes down from there, unless your niece gets a merit award greater than the need.</p>

<p>Schools can vary widely on how they handle need/merit. Heck, they can vary widely just on the need component. You get two school that cost about the same, and both guarantee to me full need, and one can use the Federal and state money towards the financial aid, including any loans, throw in work study, so the student has stated need met, but will have to come up with every bit of the cost left and work time, and all of those loans are used towards need so those venues are closed. A similar school could give all grant money for the need, leaving the student the full Stafford unsubsidized towards her part what’s left to pay, and also leave her time free to find part time work. Two like schools might even come up with whole other definitons of need when they both say they will meet in 100%. Also some schools will permit layering of outside and even inside scholarships. Others will not but will reduce the grants last. Others will take it dollar for dollar against school grant money. So when you have financial need, it is wise to cast a wide net.</p>

<p>So the simplest way to reduce all of this is what is left to pay after the school gives its merit and financial aid awards and you put the federal/state entitlements in the mix if the school hasn’t already used them in their own financial aid packages. Asterik the schools with work study awards, because those are hours that she has to work to make that money which means that many less hours she can work to pay for any costs that are left.</p>

<p>So what you get is not important. It’s what is left to pay, and what the school left you to pay it. </p>

<p>Just to let you know, usually, the merit awards are issued without regard to a student’s need situation. At most schools, they are then integrated into the financial aid packages. So, yes, that $14K scholarship will reduce the defined need at the school, most likely. If she has $30K of need at that school, as the school itself defines need, the $14k will reduce that to $16K and then that school will try to come up with an aid package, usually including work study and loans including the Staffords to meet that $16k. Unless they are a school that guarantees to meet their defined need, they may just leave some need unmet and refer the family to PLUS (Parent Direct Loans) to borrow the rest. ANd that is just the part defined as need. THe rest is entirely up to the student and family. </p>

<p>I agree that a local option, several local options are important. That’s $10K right there if she has 3 meals and cot available. Both my college son and his cousin got their best deals, by the way, by local catholic school that offered each of them (and they live in two separate locales and these are totally different schools) full tuition scholarships, so that they could have continued to commute to school for free after high school. Their next least expensive option was community college or a local state school. One of my other kids did get a sweet deal at a local state school where it would have been free tution there, but these last two boys did not get any such offer, so in their cases, private was less expensive that public. Our cousin did get some small award from a local 4 year state college but its cost was more than the cc, and commuting costs since it is further from home would have been substantially more than the cc and the private catholic college, both of which were within 15 minutes of home. He also had a job already with flexible hours in that area, so he could have gone to college for virtually free with parents providing the home to live.</p>

<p>My son found out that using up every bit of the Stafford loan is NOT a good idea when some STUFF just happened second semester that brought his cost up higher. He did not have to borrow to go to the school he chose, after what we agreed to pay, so he had that buffer. He had no work study, so he did get a part time job at college, but had to drop that due to course needs. Also found out that he needed to take a summer school course to switch majors as he wanted to do and still be on track to get out in 4 years. So it doesn’t end after one gets the package and if you pick one with no wiggle room, when things happen, the financials can become a crisis.</p>

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<p>Here is a slightly dated link to UMass Amherst’s info: [url=<a href=“http://www.umass.edu/ug_programguide/admissions/expenses.html]Expenses[/url”>Expenses]Expenses[/url</a>]

Yuck. I can’t find a similar breakout for the current year. It almost seems like they’re hiding the info.</p>

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<p>See <a href=“http://www.umass.edu/bursar/Full-Time%20Undergraduate%20Fees.pdf[/url]”>http://www.umass.edu/bursar/Full-Time%20Undergraduate%20Fees.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
Fall 2012 / Spring 2013 Mass Residents</p>

<p>Tuition $857 x 2 = $1714
Fees $5758 x 2 = $11516</p>

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<p>*See <a href=“http://www.umass.edu/bursar/Full-Tim...ate%20Fees.pdf[/url]”>http://www.umass.edu/bursar/Full-Tim...ate%20Fees.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
Fall 2012 / Spring 2013 Mass Residents</p>

<p>Tuition $857 x 2 = $1714
Fees $5758 x 2 = $11516
*</p>

<p>oh gag!!! I knew it was bad; I didn’t realize it was THAT bad. This student’s “scholarship” is almost a drop in the bucket. </p>

<p>Does anyone know how the state aid works for the state of Mass? If this student gets the small tuition scholarship, a full Pell grant, and full Stafford loans, then all she’ll have covered is tuition/fees…nothing for room, board, books, etc.</p>

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<p>That’s how it works for most states. Full need kids can’t afford to go away to state schools here even with state money, Pell, etc without the school or something/someone throwing in funds. We saw one kid who went away because he got some outside awards, with no thought of future years, and the SUNY did not ante up. He’s going to school locally now. That’s all his family and he can afford even with all the state and fed aid money. A school had to come up with the rest since his family could not.</p>

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<p>OP,</p>

<p>Our nephew is currently a sophomore at Carleton College. He is an independent student (was in a legal guardianship with us from 16-18) and has an EFC. When I was helping him with his college search, his packages varied WIDELY, from one offer covering full COA with no loans to offers that would have left him with a gap of over $25,000 a year. All the packages contained a combination of merit and need based aid. The wide variety in packages was really a surprise to me. Fast forward 2 years to helping nephew #2, and I’m no longer surprised by the variation proving you can teach an old dog new tricks :)</p>

<p>I think you gave good advice to your niece regarding being happy that she got a merit award but needing to wait until the need based award comes in.</p>

<p>With respect to your question about study abroad, it would be good to ask each school about their policy. Policies regarding the amount of financial aid that can be used for study abroad vary. Some schools have students pay their tuition to the home college as normal, and allow the student to participate on an approved study abroad program with the same amount of financial aid as normal(so no change in cost). Others only let you keep a portion of your financial aid, but charge you the exact cost of the program (so, for example, if you go on a semester program to Costa Rica that only costs $10,000 for tuition, room and board when the cost for a semester at your home institution is $20,000, you save $10,000 but don’t get to keep all your financial aid so the net cost to the student could be higher than if the student had stayed at the home institution.) Hope this makes sense. By all means, ask at the school what their policy is.</p>

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<p>That’s how it works for most states. Full need kids can’t afford to go away to state schools here even with state money, Pell, etc without the school or something/someone throwing in funds. We</p>

<p>Oh, I know. I’m just concerned that this niece may have thought her Mass public was her safety because they may have thought that the scholarship covered “real tuition” (not the phony bite-sized tuition which leaves humongous fees), so that a Pell grant, state aid, and a student loan could cover room, board, books and the rest…with maybe a summer job covering incidentals, etc.</p>

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<p>Thanks to everyone for these responses. I really appreciate it. The link to the comparison tool was very helpful. I’ll need to read over cptofthehouse’s response a few more times before I get my head entirely around it, particularly the parts about the loans and what is desirable/undesirable; I may have follow up questions if you don’t mind…</p>

<p>The school she did apply to in state (Westfield State) is one where she would live at home. She has friends and a cousin who currently attend. She would still need to get some grant money and take out loans but it’s achievable. She’d also be very unhappy (and it’s unlike every other college she’s considering) but it is our absolute safety. At the moment, she’s undecided but is most interested in studying English or Environmental Studies. I expect that will change. Westfield is not the school to do that. It has excellent programs for teaching and criminal justice but English Lit, or a liberal arts curriculum, isn’t where they’re going to shine. UMass-Amherst would have been a better school for her academically but it’s a 45-to-60-minute commute and she couldn’t deal with 25K+ students and the party atmosphere. I tried to convince her.</p>

<p>Here are the schools to which she’s already applied – the parentheses are our best guesses at her chances. The good news is that, other than Westfield, she likes every school on her list. Several of these schools were Profile schools. Not exactly sure the implications of that, but we’ve submitted them for all of those schools. She’ll have FAFSA complete by end of month.</p>

<ul>
<li>Clark (target)</li>
<li>Connecticut College (low reach)</li>
<li>Dickinson (target)</li>
<li>Goucher (safety)</li>
<li>Holy Cross (reach); 100% need blind, need met</li>
<li>Kenyon (reach)</li>
<li>Mt. Holyoke (target)</li>
<li>Muhlenberg (target)</li>
<li>Wesleyan (big reach)</li>
<li>Westfield State (safety)</li>
<li>Wheaton in MA (accepted with merit and thrilled to have that in hand)</li>
</ul>

<p>When my sister used the NPC at several of the schools, her EFC was nothing. I understand that schools expect families to contribute regardless, and we will do whatever we can to make that happen within reason. I also understand that schools may estimate differently during decision time.</p>

<p>Would you recommend that she apply to another school? I fought the good fight for Grinnell for months but, as of yesterday, lost that battle. There’s certainly a cost to applying to more schools which I’ll cover but, if it makes sense, at this point I don’t want to quibble over $50 when we’re talking about costs of $240K over the next four years. I just want to make sure that the schools to which she could apply now could possibly come back with a package that would make a difference – and where she could get a great education and graduate happily in four years. While I know there’s no way to know for sure, there’s no use applying to places which would never be able to give her a lot of money.</p>

<p>Those she’s considering:

  • St. Lawrence (she’s already interviewed and submitted SATs; she just a little freaked by the cold)
  • St. Michael’s (cold! but she’s already visited so her interest would be know)
  • Ursinus
  • College of Wooster (is it crazy to have another college on our list that would require flying?)
  • Juniata
  • Susquehanna
  • Hobart & William Smith (cold!)</p>

<p>Would you recommend applying to one of these? Any others we should consider?</p>

<p>Thank you so much for all your help.</p>

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<p>Wooster is known for good aid. I think they average over 90% of need met. They do require the CSS Profile though in addition to the FAFSA. Neither Ursinus or Juniata are known for need but they give good packages to the kids they want.</p>

19

<p>Transportation to Juniata and Suquehana might be a challenge. Check that out too.</p>

<p>If she likes Mt. Holyoke, she might like some if the other women’s colleges. Is it too late to apply to Bryn Mawr? What about the second tier? Some of them may have merit aid.</p>

20

<p>Bryn Mawr was due yesterday unfortunately. </p>

<p>Thanks for the feedback on the Pennsylvania schools – regarding aid and transportation. </p>

<p>At this stage, perhaps I’ll tell her to consider Wooster, St. Lawrence, Hobart & Williams, and maybe Franklin & Marshall. She’ll need to decide whether to add one. (I’m sure I’m making her crazy!)</p>

<p>I know it sounds like we should have been thinking about all of this before but we’ve been living and breathing colleges for 12 months but didn’t quite connect the dots on the numbers. </p>

<p>For instance, I just realized tonight that I can go to the PAYING tab on the Big Future College Board website, look at my sister’s income range, and get a sense of what colleges might offer. At the very least, it’s a good relative data point. I can’t believe I didn’t know about this. If I had known about this, Goucher wouldn’t have made the list. It was put on as a safety – and it probably shouldn’t have been given its financial aid and distance.</p>

<p>Thanks again everyone.</p>