How about walkable state flagships like UMass Amherst. About 25k kids so not crazy big. Campus is very walkable. Big difference between layouts like that and the massive schools.
Good stuff.
Quantifiable parameters.
An interesting metric is âdensityâ. Sure, there are some small atypical campuses/programs that will wear you out physically but this is still major predictor of small âfeelâ. Student to student proximity isnât the relevant factor but the density of a small undergrad population does directly relate to intimacy and physical exertion.
Your new spreadsheet can contain only schools of a maximum undergraduate enrollment and a maximum number of acres and a derived density. What other quantifiable parameters do you wish to include? Urban/suburban/rural? Distance to major metropolitan center. Number of sorority houses per student? Percentage greek?
@ivycover yes! Intimacy! Thatâs the word I was looking for. Although Iâm sure she could eek out intimacy with professors and fellow students at an honors college, thatâs not the intimacy sheâs drawn to. She wants to feel like the student body as a whole is intimate. The saying hi between classes, the passing a bunch of kids on the sidewalk during passing periods. When we were at UW, there were cars and bikes and Madison townies and it didnât seem like students knew each other. (Itâs summer of course, but stillâŠthe landscape was too busy.)
Broad brush pronouncements are almost always flawed but anecdotally the difference between Buffalo/Rochester and Atlanta/Birmingham levels of personal engagement are on a fairly predictable latitudinal scale. And their is a longitudinal aspect as well but itâs relationship is less direct.
That type of intimacy exists on a larger campus. Whenever we visited our daughter at her school we were stunned at how many people/groups she waved to, said hello to, stopped to talk to, interacted with etc as we walked the campus and town. Your daughter seems to prefer smaller schoolsâŠthatâs where she feels comfortable and at home.
We visited schools (some more than once) with 6000 studentsâŠnot an LAC and not a large universityâŠwhere most students walked alone, no hellos etc. My daughter didnât want to apply to such schoolsâŠeven though she really had no idea whether this was typical of most days.
@homerdog , my son was similar to your daughter (and I think we have crossed paths on some past threads for our sons), as in no clear career path or major in mind. Eventually over Junior year he settled in on Psychology or Poli Sci as possible options, but we started and continued the college search NOT based on program or major, since he didnât have a strong interest and well, every college has those above two. So our research and search was based much more on size, feel, fit. We thought that a LAC, or other schools that encourage lots of exploration and/or have bigger core curriculums, would be better for himâŠI WANT him to explore and feel that he will likely find his true interests better IN college than just trying to figure it out now. Plus I have heard that 40% of college students change their major.
Anyway, also knowing some things about my son and his style and personality, fit became a a strong factor in our search along with size (also medium, although we looked at some small, and DEFINITELY not big) and location. I also had my ears perked for schools with strong advising, or internships or other experiences built in, and that might provide a bit more oversight/individual attention, as my son is the kind who will rise to the occasion so to speak, but might not go searching out that occasion, if that makes sense. Iâm sure that will change in college, but a closer relationship with faculty and/or an advisor will benefit him.
Some of your Dâs schools were on his list too, and Rhodes (discussed upthread) seemed like a great option but I couldnât talk him into visiting. He ended up choosing Elon which rose to the top of the list at the first visit, and stayed there, and the second visit sealed the deal. Itâs a good fit for him with the strong advising and focus on engaged learning, is the right size, and weâve only heard great things. We both feel itâs the best choice for him. But this is all âfitâ and not necessarily rank or statistics, which confirms that for our search, visiting and reading up on culture was important, as well as the other things mentioned such as when they declare their major. We also found helpful the sites (***che.com) or Fiske Guide that has lists like âsimilar schools toâ or âother schools that students applied toâ or the peer/competitor lists, once we found a couple that seemed to fit Sâs broad interests.
The one student I know who attended Elon had a fabulous experience. It was not her first choice schoolâŠand she considered it a safetyâŠbut once she got over the âsafetyâ piece she thrived and had an unbelievable four yearsâŠwith several wonderful internships.
Back during the last ice age I distinctly recall a fellow who walked campus on a strict schedule and pattern. In addition to a penchant for outlandish headgear and neckties, he always accessorized with a tall iced tea glass containing a dark brown liquid. While not an athlete or conventional BMOC, he was exceedingly genial in an almost British manner and a Greek to boot. The family estate finally accrued to several billion but that is strictly an ancillary detail.
Greeting and being greeted by as well notation of the costume of the day and the then current level of the liquid in his glass were topics of discussion as common as the weather and sometimes even addressed by professors from the lectern. Seemingly no one was immune from his charm. It was only then that I first recognized the value of a Culver (or equivalent type) education. A few of you may know exactly the individual to whom I am referring.
Lol, UMass Amherst is a crazy big campus. Itâs the first thing so many note, before saying how much they liked their experience there. Some kids just donât want the all that acreage.
One of the things that impressed me when visiting, was whether students were friendly and open to us, as visitors. Clark/MA was one of the best.
Interesting discussion. Agree that both large & small schools offer intimacy, but sometimes privacy is difficult to find at small schools. Regardless, for one intent on joining the Greek system, a sorority at any size school should offer plenty of intimacy & close bonding.
Right up front, admittedly, Iâm biased to UMich. I find it cute, small-ish and quaint.
When I/we visited Madison, during the 1st week of August a couple years ago, it seemed like Manhattan to me, compared to Ann Arbor. 
Some crave or require virtual anonymity and find it only in the largest, urban schools.
I can understand your daughterâs thinking, as it sounds similar to my son. When someone asked him last week what he liked most about Denison, he surprised me by saying something like âthe compact campus.â He had been very consistent in this preference over our whole two year search. The first school we visited during junior year was Occidental, which also has a beautiful self-contained campus, and he loved that and stuck with the concept. He had been to sports camps at Cornell, UCLA and Berkeley and had also visited USC, but he absolutely wouldnât consider any big schools. No point arguing about it, I think, as there are lots of good schools that fit the model. I remember laughing a few years ago when I read posts about kids dinging schools because there was a road running through campus, but now I understand!
UMass Amherst is a big campus for New England. Until you visit some of the really big schools outside of the NE bubble. Itâs a medium sized flagship at most. But certainly waaay bigger than most of the names mentioned on this thread. Itâs a great place. Like most flagships you will have an opportunity to find a group and vibe that works for you. Youâll find the full spectrum outside of the crazy and terrible fringe stuff.
My S had same reaction to Wisconsin when we visited in June. Too many streets and too busy. I liked the fact that the town blends with the campus b/c even off student apartments are easy walking or biking distance to classes. But itâs def. more urban feeling. Itâs still on his list I think (if he decides to apply engineering), but he liked VT better.
Some large schools are not like that. UNC is 16k undergrads (a lot smaller than Wisconsin) so bigger than a lot of colleges on your Dâs list but itâs compact and has very few roads running through it so it feels more intimate. Students run into each other all the time b/c theres a central part campus that I think almost every student passes through several times a day. Itâs gorgeous â but of course itâs my alma mater so Iâm biased!
My kids at 16, when they were looking at colleges, thought 5000 was too big and really wanted smaller. Theyâd been to bigger schools for sports camps and band camp and just wanted something smaller. One picked a school with about 3500 on campus and the other 10,000 (size was her compromise to go to the school she wanted). She knew 2 other students before she started --from Kindergarten! After orientation she knew dozens more. By the first few weeks of class she knew hundreds more. She did have one lecture with about 140 students in it (biggest at her school) and she knew 15 or so right off the bat in that class.
Both visited friends at much bigger schools (like Florida State and Colorado State) and both said the same thing âOh, I could have done this school.â In fact, both wish their schools were bigger by junior year, especially that there would be more class choices and more sections of the classes. For my daughterâs last semester senior year, she had the same prof for 2 courses, he was her senior adviser, and she worked for him. It was a small department and sheâd run out of courses to pick from.
Kids are different at 16 than at 18. She might not like Wisconsin but may like Iowa as another Big 10 choice. Different campus, different vibe. Just as cold.
@twoinanddone yes true. 16 is not 18 and she could very well change her tune. Unlike our S, I do think she will have a bit of a mix of schools on her list. She still has over a year and quite a few visits left before anything has to be decided. It wonât be Iowa or IU for her. Too many kids from our high school go to those schools (50+ to each last year) and she definitely does not want that. But maybe another bigger school could be in the cards. Who knows. Right now, I can just go on what sheâs saying and start her list from there. Even if she is not keeping an open mind, I am. And Iâll have options for her to add if she changes her mind. Still want a school, though, that has very strong alumni support and career services. I donât see that not being a priority.
My LAC kid also said, a year in, that she would have been fine at a big school. But sheâs a happy grad of that LAC. She didnât regret her choice, just realized later that that size limit that had been so important to her, at the time was, in retrospect, less important.
Just want to chime in here. @homerdog , your open-mindedness is commendable, and your strategy of getting your D to look at alternatives is exactly what she needs. But if she puts limitations on what she wants, rational or not, itâs not as if sheâs not still going to have a slew of great options to consider. There are so so many schools where a good student can get an excellent education that eliminating a segment of them is not going to be a problem. And most schools of the type she likes will do a decent job with career services and connections to alums. I would not prioritize the getting out process over the being there part.
If your daughter is willing to compromise on the âmiddle of nowhereâ criteria, St. Lawrence would be a really good safety, with lots of merit for her profile. We just returned from a visit with DS21 and loved it (posted a visit report on CC yesterday). 2400 students, lots of school spirit (D3 sports but D1 hockey), fanatical alumni connections that really help with getting internships and jobs. Good academics all around, with an excellent Environmental Studies program. It is remote, but if she likes the outdoors and doesnât mind snow it is a beautiful spot to spend four years.