<p>
[quote]
what more can you ask for?
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</p>
<p>The damn hill to be demolished.</p>
<p>I live in Germany right now as an EAP student. My house is on top of a hill. You think the hill in Berkeley is bad? Try biking up this one! YIKES!</p>
<p>cool. thanks!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.flocabulary.com%5B/url%5D">www.flocabulary.com</a></p>
<p>I just received an email from a close friend, whose son is going to UC Berkeley. I was very dissapointed to learn of what goes on in the dorms. I am not naive. I do realize that college students drink, and some even do drugs. However, what he describes is very discouraging. I will cut and paste his comments below. I changed his son's name, so as to protect his privacy. I would sure hope that someone at Berkeley reads this, and passes on a recommendation to the dorm staff, to clean up their act. This is no hoax. For what it is worth, my son has applied to Berkeley. He received an email recently that they are "processing" his application. I have been hopeful since he applied, that he might get accepted. I am having second thoughts, if this is what is allowed to go on at Berkeley. </p>
<p>Following are the comments from my friend:</p>
<p>John just finished his first semester at Berkeley. It's too early to form an opinion of the educational experience, but the dorm experience was a big letdown. Both of John's roommates were total party animals. They get drunk every night, smoke dope, and even deal drugs out of the dorm. One of the boys dropped out of several classes, and the other one is barely hanging on. John is strong enough to keep his distance from them, but my wife and I are just dumbfounded that these jerks could even get into Berkeley. There's obviously some other factor that determines who gets in and who gets rejected. John thinks that he's the only guy on his dorm floor that doesn't drink.</p>
<p>And I know this experience all too well... and there are all sorts of that type of "Bad Roommate"...</p>
<p>Like my roommate first year -- he would stay up late hours playing games and banging out loud music, slamming his fist into the desk and screaming loud obscenities, and writing on his blog with the lights on with his loud keyboard while drunk and blasting music on his headphones so loud, it rivalled most computer speaker systems at medium volume. This is the same roomie that could spring $450+ for the newest Air Force Ones or Jordans or whatever on EBay, but when I ask he buy a quiet-key keyboard so I could get some damn sleep in between his bouts of rage at being killed in some idiotic computer game... he's broke. And oftentimes, the RA does NOT want to be helpful at all.</p>
<p>Nice thing about living in a fraternity or an apartment, when you want the party to be over, you can kick your 'guests' out without being told to "Get With It." or "Learn to Tolerate Other's Cultures." because the room you live in is the room you rent/own, and it is yours to do as you please.</p>
<p>I agree, the dorm administration needs to take notice and do something. This problem occurs all too often. Don't let it discourage your son though. My Rec: On the dorm application, put down you want neat & quiet roommates. I put down I wanted messy and slightly noisy, but reasonably subdued -- what I got was filthy and a metal concert every night. </p>
<p>And, don't double-post please.</p>
<p>Apply for Foothill dorms. They are known to be quiet and less party-ish.</p>
<p>This is one incident at Berkeley and does not reflect the entire campus or its students. </p>
<p>There are positive experiences as well. My first semester at Berkeley has been wonderful. Surely I had my bouts with my roommate, but it didn't escalate because both of us knew that living together was a compromise. I sleep early, he sleeps late; he keeps only his study light on and I put on the eye cover, etc. Since we're both reasonable, we make compromises.</p>
<p>My floor has been quiet after quiet hours (11pm-8pm Sun-Thurs, 1 am - 10 am Fri-Sat). Our RA has enforced quiet hours, drinking, smoking. </p>
<p>I choose not to drink, but some of my floormates do. It's a fact of college. Short of attending BYU (which is quite stringent) there's no escaping it (unless you want to go to Freeborn). However, that being said, there are several on my floor who do not drink. And most people who do drink don't do it on our floor and take it elsewhere.</p>
<p>I certainly hope "John" will discuss this with Housing Offices. He can request a transfer. As for your son, please don't let one person's bad experience be the determinant. As unlimtedx pointed out, there are dorms that are quiet, such as Foothill. Freeborn Hall is a substance-free environment.</p>
<p>lovetocamp,</p>
<p>In logic, we call that a biased sample. C'mon. You think that kind of crap doesn't go on at EVERY university? Gimme a break. Friends of mine at all kinds of schools (from Penn to MIT to UCLA) described similar experiences. One of my friends at Penn had a neighbor in a dorm get arrested for COCAINE possesion.</p>
<p>If you think this is something that's just awful at Berkeley, I suggest you get your head out of the sand. Sorry to be so blunt, but maybe your son is better off going to a "dry" university like BYU if this is that big of a deal to you. </p>
<p>By the way, this is the clincher for me:
[quote]
There's obviously some other factor that determines who gets in and who gets rejected.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah, because smart people never drink or do drugs. Yup.</p>
<p>There are people who can party every weekend and still maintain their GPA, you know.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There are people who can party every weekend and still maintain their GPA, you know.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Exactly. This isn't a case where party animals are dumb hooligans. Some of them are just...wilder than the quiet folks like me.</p>
<p>Are housing co-ops the major suggestion for incoming freshmen?</p>
<p>^ there has been a discussion about that, try searching "uc co-ops"</p>
<p>Quick summary: supposedly awesome food, need to have an open mind to live there, great parties, MUCH cheaper than apartments and dorms.</p>
<p>For what it is worth, and as I already noted, and apparently some didn't bother to read before they made their caustic remarks, I am not naive. I lived in dorms 30 years ago, when I was first in college. Yes, there was drinking. Yes, there was drugs. But it was not as rampant as has been described to me by my friend, about his son at Berkeley. Lest you think "he" is naive, he lived during the 60's and 70's in San Francisco. He had a pony tail halfway down his back. Need i say more? However, what you so quickly discount, is that when a parent who is paying over $20,000 per year for their son to go to what is considered one of the best universities in the country, and his son ends up having unbelievable challenges just finding an opportunity to study in his own room - for which he is paying large sums of money, then the system is broke at Berkeley. You can say all you want about it being an "exception". He tried to get a room change, and to no avail. Geez, you guys sure "know it all" don't you. Rather than show concern for his son's situation, all you can do is criticise him, or his son. Is there a point, ever, when the University is somehow held accountable for the environment, since they are the ones charging over $20,000 for the tuiton, room, and board? Or is it always the student's fault. Let me see if I undertand things, this nice kid, who earned great grades in high school, and scored high on test scores so that he would be accepted into CAL, simply wants to study and get an education, and when his roomates want to be jerks, it is somehow his fault, and it is his responsibility to get a room change. Makes perfect sense to me.</p>
<p>Imagine how this makes ppl like me, an out-of-stater, feel to think that they'll be paying 45,000 for a drugged up, uncooperative, nutcase school. I totally agree that ppl should be able to switch rooms if it is requested. (I'd start a co-op house of my own and make it nice.)</p>
<p>lovetocamp,</p>
<p>We're not criticizing the son or the parent. We're merely saying that ONE case doesn't make for a rampant problem. We're not saying that he doesn't deserve the living situation he wants. However, he has options. He could, as other posters have suggested, move out into the co-ops. He could join a fraternity and go live at the house. He could get an apartment. He could become such a thorn in the sides of administrators that they have no choice to move him. He has options.</p>
<p>However, your argument that somehow Berkeley is deficient is based on ONE example. One example is not statistically significant to show any sort of correlation. If you're concerned, however, it might pay to go and look at surveys on student satisfaction and look at the aggregate data, not a single datum.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Imagine how this makes ppl like me, an out-of-stater, feel to think that they'll be paying 45,000 for a drugged up, uncooperative, nutcase school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Do you people use single cases to define all your rules?! I mean, I've been told that Golden Retrievers are great dogs. My friend's, however, was a mean SOB that bit everyone. Should I base my understanding of the breed on one dog? NO.</p>
<p>Honestly, what are they teaching in statistics courses these days?</p>
<p>Yes, there are more things he can do, and maybe his dad will pursue other options. One thing he is considering is letting him move back home - since he lives close enough to commute. I don't dispute your "statistical" analysis. Statistics are only as good as the paper that they are written on. When you start working for a living, and the statistics say that the majority of people in your profession earn 100k, live long and prosper, and retire after 20 or 30 years. That statistic will be meaningless when your job is moved overseas to India, because the wages are less in India. For many, Berkeley, UCLA, and other campuses are wonderful. However, to discount the reality for this student and his family is very callous. Why are you more sensitive to, and are more concerned about the "statistics" that show that Berkeley is some awesome school, then you are about this hard working bright young student who had a nightmare exprerience in his freshman year. It seems to matter more to you, that the reputation of Berkeley is held high, than the feelings of this poor lad. You will surely do well as an HR manager. When those employees beneath you lose their jobs to overseas employees, you will say "hey, the statistics show that you lasted longer than most in your same field. Your one job loss experience is statistically meaningless. Don't you see that the majority of workers in your field are doing just fine". That will surely make the workers feel much better, that statistically, their situation is an anomaly.</p>
<p>Ohmygoodness lovetocamp. Believe me, I have no espeical interest in defending the reputation of Berkeley because I hardly enjoyed my first semester though for different reasons. Nor are any of the posters trying to criticize the student, his parents, or you. </p>
<p>The point about statistics isn't meant to say that the kid's situation isn't important and should just be ignored. You were interested in knowing what goes on at Berkeley, particularly in light of the fact that your kid is considering going there, and we are simply trying to explain to you that most of the dorms are not like that.</p>
<p>Sweetdreams - at least your post reflected some thought and consideration for this family. Thank you. Most who have commented are so locked into the importance of the reputation of Berkeley, that they are unable to see the forest for the trees. If one person crossing the street is hit by a car, for the family of that person it doesn't matter than 99% of the people who cross a street do just fine. I work in IT, and very fine knowledgeable programmers are losing their jobs to India. Statistics don't mean jack, when it is your job. The statistics at Berkeley may be wonderful, but when more and more hard working students are being affected by lazy dorm administration, then the system is broken. Does it have to wait until > 50% are affected before it becomes a real issue, and some actions are taken.?</p>
<p>lovetocamp,</p>
<p>It's funny that you said of us
[quote]
that [we] are unable to see the forest for the trees.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How ironic that you're the one using this saying when we're the one saying, "look at the forest!" We're trying to say that this is not indicative of everyone's experience. </p>
<p>However, when did I ever say that defending Berkeley's reputation was my goal? I'm merely saying that you're using fallacious arguments to somehow describe Berkeley as some hellhole for students. Furthermore, you state things like,
[quote]
The statistics at Berkeley may be wonderful, but when more and more hard working students are being affected by lazy dorm administration, then the system is broken.
[/quote]
without providing ANY evidence other than a single anecdote.</p>
<p>By the way, about this statement:</p>
<p>
[quote]
If one person crossing the street is hit by a car, for the family of that person it doesn't matter than 99% of the people who cross a street do just fine.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It also doesn't mean that crossing the street is a dangerous activity that should be avoided by the other 99%. It may have been a freak accident, or simple misconduct on the part of one or a few people. Besides, this is a red herring.</p>