<p>Honestly, does anyone feel bad for her that she HAS to attend Penn? Certainly not the thousands of kids who didn;t get in.</p>
<p>She should go and then, if she is still not happy, she can transfer...or, maybe she will like it, or maybe she won't like it anywhere. Who knows.</p>
<p>I guess this girl did what a lot of people in this world do, just sign the contract without reading a word of it.</p>
<p>you know... I will say that compared to many schools, Penn's financial aid is very generous, and as it tries to compete with Harvard and the like, it is probably only going to get better. I don't feel bad for her honestly because she did take away a spot, and many people for sure would love to be in her shoes. Suck it up, take out the loans, and make the most of it</p>
<p>unless it's free for her, she can get out of the agreement due to financial reasons</p>
<p>no way that'll fly. Penn "meets" 100% of demonstrated need. So Penn thinks that she can afford it</p>
<p>I think everyone is giving this girl too much credit. She applied to an amazing school, she got into an amazing school, and she should be greatful and just go. How can someone smart enough to go Ivy League be so inept at making personal judgements?</p>
<p>Just putting this out there --</p>
<p>The FAFSA is not the objective indicator of ability to pay. What they say you can pay may not truly reflect what one can ACTUALLY pay. It does not really take expenses into account as much as you may hope (otherwise some rich person could say, "Darn, I spend all this gas on my yacht -- this means I have no money to send my kid to college." ) Doesn't work that way. Just because Penn says you can pay doesn't mean you actually can -- it doesn't mean that what they determine is something you can live with comfortably, financially speaking.</p>
<p>But anyways it sounds to me that she should have understood what it meant to apply ED, as she decided to make a rash move without doing her homework first. They can't make her attend but they can certainly ruin her attendance-chances for other schools.</p>
<p>MichaelJ: Not always true. Many of the peer institutions have better aid.</p>
<p>maybe she shouldnt have applied ED to a school she didnt visit or wasnt sure she wanted to go to........ did she lie about her financial status? </p>
<p>I'm really not that sympathetic at all for her, this is her fault. if the message is, "make sure you know you like the school you apply ED to cuz it's binding and the colleges treat it as such".... well no ****.</p>
<p>LegendofMax, you are correct, the FAFSA is a falicy, however, it is a legal document that IS the financial aid standard whether you can pay or not. If you take the "well thats not really what I can afford" approach to applying ED, essentially anyone could get out of their contract. The FAFSA may be bogus, but its the only thing colleges have of determining aid. You know colleges like Penn have so little money, they really need to make sure they don't lose one student worth of tuition. Think of how it would effect their endowment:)</p>
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Naturally. You are contractually binded to attend Penn. Can't see how someone can hate Penn but hey she might be my opposite for all I know.
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</p>
<p>ED is no more binding than a "Ride at your own Risk" sign at a carnival. If someone dies on a carnival ride, is that sign going to free the carnival from liability? No. And ED does not prevent anyone from going to a different college even if accepted ED. Other than that the American court system certainly doesn't uphold contracts that are most often initiated by Minors.</p>
<p>But this story strikes me as fake. Most likely the dean wouldn't handle it. And its unlikely that he would ever ask such belligerent questions. It's harassment. If this were a real situation and this person persisted in calling, it would be very easy for the student's family to get a restraining order placed on said "dean".</p>
<p>And no, if this were real, UW wouldn't rescind admission, they simply wouldn't care about UPenn's little huff over ED, and UPenn wouldn't be able to find out where this student was going instead of UPenn in the first place.</p>
<p>Honestly, I'm concerned by some of the statements I read in this thread. People seem to think that contracts are legitimate simply because the contract-maker says so. As if when you go in for surgery and sign a liability waiver that means the doctor is free to leave sponges inside you without fear of legal repercussion. The law doesn't work that way... thank god.</p>
<p>I just talked to her today on the phone. Actually, Penn said "I'll be seeing you next year" so it sounds like they are making her enroll at Penn next year, or they will try and get her kicked out of UW. She's going to basically hang up and not return their phone calls, try and stop Penn from contacting her and finding out where she is going to school.</p>
<p>Qwetip, don't take this the wrong way, but I think you misunderstand this thread and the concept of ED in general. First, ED is binding legally and as a student applicant it is your responsibility to understand that. Second, not only did she sign, her guardian signed, as well as a counselor from school. So your statement that the American legal system ignores minor signed contracts is false in this instance for her ED agreement was endorsed by at least two adults. Third, she lied to Penn about not going because of financial reasons when in actuality she just wasn't impressed with the school. Aside from the moral implications of lying, I find it hard to believe that she didn't think Penn would know based on her fafsa report that she could attend. You don't say "I can't afford it," when they are standing there with a document in their hands that says "you can." She is foolish for getting herself into this mess because, Penn can ensure that she has her admisions rescined from UW, because its a stipulation in the ED agreement. If you don't like this system don't apply ED. If used correctly, maturly, and responsibly it can be a great friend to college hopefuls.</p>
<p>... so *** is ED for? If you don't enforce the same policy across the board, then you ruin things for the people who actually abide by the rules. Many schools also will tell each other where they are attending, and I understand that they communicate with each other on this topic. If you let her just let go of her ED choice that easily, then you ruin the point of ED: higher admission rate in return for commitment. Once you make the commitment you can't back out.</p>
<p>Yes, the financial aid can be wacky. Note the quotation marks around "meet". What they say you need is a lot different from what you actually need. But out of the schools that I got into (both public and private, both mid-to-top tier), Penn had a very competitive aid package. It's no Harvard, but it's not too bad also.</p>
<p>Bottom line: She should have known what she was getting into.</p>
<p>edit: man all these quick posts. Yes, I was going to say, they will definitely be calling around if she tries to ignore them. Once UW finds out she has an outstanding ED, chances are they might still let her in. But even more likely they will refuse on the grounds that 1. She made an agreement to go to Penn, and 2. it shows a lack of integrity. In fact we can go as far as to say that she might have trouble getting federal aid at UW, since she was supposed to go to Penn (just speculating).</p>
<p>I second that</p>
<p>Qwertip: It's definitely happened -- people (I've known two, personally) who try to cheat ED have had other admissions rescinded.</p>
<p>Although, to halopeno: "You don't say "I can't afford it," when they are standing there with a document in their hands that says "you can.""... the document is not always right. Sometimes what Penn offers you is just something you can't afford, even if they say it meets your need.</p>
<p>I think it's wrong to make it sound like ED is less binding than it really is... it defeats the very purpose of ED admission. People shouldn't do ED with the impression that they can just pull out if they want to go somewhere else. The point of ED is that you have determined that this school is for you -- if you got in, you'd go. Penn knows that all ED acceptances are for-sure yields. Everyone they accept will attend. The whole POINT is defeated when people try to back out of it.</p>
<p>A2,</p>
<p>I suspect either you or this girl is playing games. But if this is real, tell this girl to start recording every single phone call UPenn makes. Have her repeatedly say "Please, stop calling me" and similiar phrases. Also check to see if the state she is in has a law that requires people to inform others if they are being recorded. If so, begin by saying "I am obligated to inform you that you are being recorded". If the calls persist more than say, 5 days, Contact a lawyer and bring the recordings. He'll begin the procedure to have a restraining order put in place.</p>
<p>Exhibit A: The American Way</p>
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... so *** is ED for?
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</p>
<p>For schools to protect their yield.</p>
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Qwetip, don't take this the wrong way, but I think you misunderstand this thread and the concept of ED in general. First, ED is binding legally and as a student applicant it is your responsibility to understand that. Second, not only did she sign, her guardian signed, as well as a counselor from school.
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</p>
<p>No, its not. Contact your lawyer. Again contracts are not legitimate just because the contract-maker says so.</p>
<p>If I sign a liability waiver and the surgeon kills me in the Operating Room, does that mean he can't be sued? No. Use some common sense here. If what you were saying is true, Dr. Kevorkian, who had people sign contracts saying its okay to "assist" their suicide wouldn't be in jail. Again, no contract is above the law. Contracts do not make laws. Can't believe I'm having to explain this.</p>
<p>Legendofmax, I know that the fafsa isn't always correct. I understand that what Penn, or any college for that matter offers you, may not be what you can afford. But I also understand that signing an ED agreement forfeits your right to disagree with their package. That may not be the fairest case, but most people seem to deal with it. I know I intend to.</p>
<p>The simple truth is that the girl made an agreement, and she reneged on it. Even if she brought this to court, what kind of school would want her afterwards? All they would see is an expensive legal liability. Again, she should have known what she was getting into, it's as simple as that.</p>
<p>The school guarantees you admission in return for a commitment. If everyone could break this commitment as easily as not returning phone calls, then everyone will apply ED to penn, and then if they get in, apply RD for Harvard, Yale, Caltech, MIT, and use Penn as their safety blanket. It doesn't work. Furthermore, there is no law being broken here. Penn can't "make" her go, but they can definitely use their connections to make it as hard as possible for her to get in anywhere else. Illegal? no.</p>