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The simple truth is that the girl made an agreement, and she reneged on it. Even if she brought this to court, what kind of school would want her afterwards? All they would see is an expensive legal liability. Again, she should have known what she was getting into, it's as simple as that.
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<p>The simple truth is that under American law Minors are not allowed to make "agreements". Can a Minor sign an armed-forces enlistment contract? Not legally. She doesn't have to bring any college to court. But if the ED contract were legitimate UPenn could take this student to civil court for Breach of Contract. But of course UPenn would be laughed out of court if they ever attempted that.</p>
<p>I really wish High Schools would start requiring students to take a "Law and the Individual" course or something similiar.</p>
<p>Qwertip: Her signature was endorsed by two other adults!!! Its a legitamite contract. You seem legal happy or something. There is nothing illegal about it. She is the one who lied to Penn.</p>
<p>Tell your friend whether its a wise decision. S/he wants a multi billion dollar institution as well as one with numerous connections to be against him/her by not upholding the contract which s/he agreed to? Well, Good luck.</p>
<p>Here is a piece of age old advice:
If equally matched, we can offer battle;
if slightly inferior in numbers, we can avoid the enemy;
if quite unequal in every way, we can flee from him.</p>
<p>Sun Tzu. Its a recommended text.</p>
<p>He was a great war general, but did he get into HPY or Penn. I don't think so! :)</p>
<p>I think being a brilliant general whose text is being read milleniums later is a rather decent hook.</p>
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Qwertip: Her signature was endorsed by two other adults!!! Its a legitamite contract. You seem legal happy or something. There is nothing illegal about it. She is the one who lied to Penn.
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<p>I'm not legal happy. I'm just an adult who understands the law. Not someone who would be intimidated by illegitimate ED contracts anymore than I would be by "Ride at your Own Risk" signs.</p>
<p>Its not that its illegal. UPenn could have rejected this applicant instead of accepting. It makes no difference, and if this applicant were real she'd be going to UW without any issue. Its that ED is no more binding than if I wrote up a contract right now saying that anyone who replies to this thread below me has signed a contract giving me their soul. Me making such a contract isn't illegal, it's just illegitimate and irrelevant.</p>
<p>Penn isn't going to take her to court. If they already knows she is going to UW, you can be assured they will have some very long conversations with people there. And then UW will have to decide if it wants to face a lot of criticism from its peers by letting her attend. Bottom line is, she went back on her word, legal justifications aside. If she decided to bring it to court, it would only hurt her, not help her.</p>
<p>What happened to the good old days when people didn't try to use legal loopholes to get out of things?</p>
<p>mahras, that maybe true, but if his test scores aren't in the 2200's I don't think he'll have a shot. BTW, if you are an ancient chinese army general, is that considered an URM, or better because no one else from the Tang dynasty would apply?</p>
<p>Also, Qwertip, you don't get the idea behind the ED contract. You just don't. Go look it up on wikipedia or something.</p>
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Penn isn't going to take her to court. If they already knows she is going to UW, you can be assured they will have some very long conversations with people there. Bottom line is, she went back on her word, legal justifications aside. If she decided to bring it to court, it would only hurt her, not help her.</p>
<p>What happened to the good old days when people didn't try to use legal loopholes to get out of things?
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<p>Again, Penn Can't take her to court. If they could they would've a long time ago just to make an example out of some poor student and to reinforce their ED policy. This student hasn't gone back on her word anymore than I go back on my word when I decide to cancel my cable subscription. Again, she doesn't need to bring anyone to court.</p>
<p>Do Ivies circulate ED lists and rescind people who ED to more than one Ivy? Yes, does the law in anyway support that practice or anything revolving around illegitimate contracts? No. As far as the law actively fighting ED policy, its never been tested in court and there aren't any laws on the books regarding so theres no way to know. I'm sure Harvard was surprised when the supreme court made them allow military recruiters back on campus though.</p>
<p>What happened to the good ole days when institutions didn't try to pass off drivel as binding contracts?</p>
<p>What happened to the good ole days when someone's word actually meant something?</p>
<p>Do you understand what ED is? If people say they are willing to attend upon acceptance, the schools will reserve a spot for you. If people don't show up, then the rejected applicants + the school aren't going to like it. It's not law, it's trust. If people aren't going to follow the rules, there is less incentive to have ED, which hurts people who play nice.</p>
<p>You don't seem to understand that we are not talking about law here. Top schools do seem to remain in communcation with each other, and I'm sure a school would be very interested to know that one of their students would do something like that. </p>
<p>If you don't like ED, don't apply ED. You can't have it both ways, getting both the benefit of the ED plus the flexibility of not having applied ED.</p>
<p>I have also heard of high schools blacklisted by a college if a student reneges on ED. After all, it is part of the GC's responsibility to make sure students understand and abide by ED.</p>
<p>I doubt she cares, though.</p>
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It's not law, it's trust.
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<p>Agreed, ED is not a "legally binding contract" as numerous people have asserted in this thread.</p>
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Top schools do seem to remain in communcation with each other, and I'm sure a school would be very interested to know that one of their students would do something like that.
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<p>An ED list is circulated among the Ivies. There is no massive continental conspiracy to enforce the ED policy.</p>
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I have also heard of high schools blacklisted by a college if a student reneges on ED. After all, it is part of the GC's responsibility to make sure students understand and abide by ED.
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<p>This is, in fact, true. My counselor was telling me that a guy who was accepted to Brown ED at his old school later decided not to go and caused this whole drama with Brown about not going, and several years later no one's gotten into Brown from that school, while they send 4-5 kids to HYP (each one) every year. I'm not saying this means that kids who get into HYP would get into Brown, but my counselor said that every person that's applied to Brown since that kid has failed to get in, and that these are pretty talented applicants.</p>
<p>ED is binding, but there is a clause that says if the financial aid doesn't meet the standards then you don't have to attend. It doesn't mean university standards it means your own personal standards. I suppose though if they give you full ride you can't complain about the money. </p>
<p>At Cornell we discussed this in length with admissions people and they said that if financial aid is a problem you have to first try to repeal it to get a better package but if you are still unhappy then they release you from the contract.</p>
<p>Also, for all of you saying that so and so doesn't understand the ED contract you also don't understand it. It's a moral contract which to some people means a lot. Legally though you are not bound to the college, but you can be "blacklisted" from other colleges. According to some legal sources you can sue if this happens though.</p>
<p>Look the point is that ED is what is called a "honor-bound agreement," thus it has no "legal standing" (btw this is according to the National Association for College Admission Counseling). A school can't force you to attend their institution...the most they can do is deny you a refund on your deposit and call up other peer institutions and ASK them to rescind your admission. Typically, many top schools will honor their peer schools request (so trying to go from a Penn to another Ivy/Duke/G-town/etc. probably won't fly) however, state schools typically tend to let the attend.</p>
<p>I know three people who have broken ED contracts...2 DID have their admissions rescinded. One broke from Yale because Tufts gave her better finaid and Tufts ended up rescinding her admission forcing her to go to our state school. The second guy was in a similar situation with finaid and broke from Princeton to go to Georgetown and ended up getting G-town admission rescinded...he ended up at our state school as well. The third guy broke with Brown because he had gotten a full tuition/room&board/stipend scholarship from our state school and just ended up at our state school. All lost their deposits.</p>
<p>oh yeah btw, my h.s. which typically sends ~3 to Princeton, ~5 to Yale, ~3 to Brown the year after all these ED breaks had 0 admitted at Princeton, 1 at Yale, and 1 at Brown. So the schools did punish the our h.s.</p>
<p>Honestly, Qwertip seems to be the only one who knows what he/she is saying. ED contracts are only used for yield protection for schools, so that they can claim to have larger yields than in actuality. Also, a contract is not legally binding just because the person creating the contract says so, and certainly not on a minor (assuming this student is in fact a minor). Also, I find it difficult to believe that the dean of admissions of Penn has little else to do than harass a student on the phone.</p>
<p>read the last ten posts</p>