I also know someone who went to the Caribbean for med school (SLU for undergrad) and is a very successful OB-GYN.
So to take OB-GYN as an example, in 2020:
54 US IMG matched (45%)
66 did not
1027 US MD matched (87%)
159 did not
209 US DO matched (72%)
80 did not
And for Psychiatry in 2020:
136 US IMG matched (43%)
182 did not
1029 US MD matched (91%)
106 did not
296 US DO matched (84%)
55 did not
All data in the previous links so anyone looking at med school now contemplating any specialty can decide if taking on the debt or reducing costs is worth the odds for them.
Forgiving 10K or 50K won’t make much of a dent in med school loans, but I know I’m in favor of at least 10K for those who have debt. Helping people do better in life is the best cost savings our country can invest in. Those who are fortunate enough to be born into wealthy families get the gift from their parents (usually). Those who aren’t can use a helping hand.
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I am assuming that we are done with the OT discussion of med school admissions and residency match.
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This article describes the Brunner test and its application to student loans which has made them so difficult to discharge through courts.
“He did not earn a formal degree and began working part-time jobs in retail before attending the for-profit Ponce School of Medicine in Puerto Rico”
There is your answer, why didn’t match and ended up with debt. This is another Caribbean failure stories.
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I was more drawn to the fact he had his debt reduced by a judge, and that the dept. of education didn’t immediately appeal, but instead is reviewing their policies.
"These schools also have to address misconceptions in the United States about offshore medical schools. Some U.S. hiring committees are unaware that Puerto Rico is a U.S. territory, said Rodriguez de Arzola. “It’s frustrating. Every year, we receive letters wanting us to certify that we are an LCME-accredited institution.”
When I first started digging in to learning more about student loan forgiveness I was in the camp that professional degrees maybe shouldn’t be forgiven. But when I think about the lack of diversity in medicine and law I realized I didn’t just want students from wealthy backgrounds able to take the risk of making big investments in their education.
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Residency unmatch (more outlier, but norm for Caribbean schools) and medical school loan forgiveness through bankruptcy is even further outlier.
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Any school loans being discharged through bankruptcy court are outliers right now. I’m just wondering if a change at the Dept of Education will open this door. Will this case remain an outlier, or is it a harbinger?
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Koeut did well in school and earned a bachelor’s in marine biology and Spanish from Duke University in 2002 before moving to Bangkok to study clinical tropical medicine.
So he has a bachelors degree from Duke and a medical degree and the only jobs he can find are retail and restaurant jobs ? Seriously?
Discharging student loans in bankruptcy? If you think lower SES kids have it hard now, wait till lenders require guarantors or co-signers and credit score minimums to issue student debt.
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I think they do. Federal loans have simplified qualifications but private lenders still have requirements. Those requirements are lighter than that same lender may have for an unsecured loan (most lenders don’t really make a lot of unsecured loans except for credit cards), but often include a co-signer who qualifies.
That part is certainly a mystery, not a norm for sure, It is possible that person may had faced some life altering event that is not being reported in that article. There is no mention of any attempt to get PA job, some lab research work or others in medicine field which can earn him decent to pay off loans, even with that it will take life time to pay off. It is obvious that individual took the gamble away from mainland (most likely MD/DO schools hadn’t offered an admission, that itself is a red flag).
Edit: Detail judgement states “Koeut does not suffer from any physical or mental health problems that would affect his employment prospects”
Actually…medical school students get $42,000 a year in UNSUBSIDIZED Direct Loans, but can then take Grad Plus Loans in their names up to the cost of attendance.
No cosigner or guarantor.
But are those medical student loans direct, federal loans? The federal loans directly to students or PLUS loans to parents don’t require many qualifications and do not require co-signers. I was talking about private lenders (Discover, SoFi, Sallie Mae). Most of those made to undergrads do require some kind of co-signer unless the student can qualify with a decent credit score and debt ratio number.
I don’t think Biden, in his campaign promises, or Warren/Schumer in their plan to forgive $50k in loans, were ever talking about forgiving anything but direct loans. No private loans, no direct loans that have been refinanced with SoFi or others, not even Perkins loans that were guaranteed through the govt but issued by the colleges. Just direct and PLUS loans made to the students. I’ve not even heard talk of forgiving Parent PLUS loans.
Now when it comes to forgiving through the bankruptcy courts, congress would have to change the bankruptcy law of 1986, which is what prevents student loans (govt or private) from being discharged. If there is still a co-signer on the loan, the co-signer would be liable after discharge.
The student in that article received a discharge under the current bankruptcy laws. My observation about student loans, and graduate school loans in particular, is that if discharging those loans in bankruptcy becomes legal or commonplace under certain readings of the law or administration of a “test” by the courts the result is that lenders will be less likely to loan huge amounts without more stringent credit requirements (which isn’t the case now) because of the increased risk of discharge and no collateral to soften the blow.
That case is certainly chilling to a lender. The court wrote off almost half a million in loans, deduced that the debtor who holds a BA from Duke and an MD can only afford to pay off roughly $9000 in loans over the next 17 years?
Here’s another example more extreme example.
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Search that individual online and you will find full case judgement, very methodical charcterization by court, has very good details about his job finding efforts and become a victim of overqualified for medical field and underqualified otherwise. Also he had loans from Duke too and made partial payments during 2003-05 before starting med school, 2006-10 (wonder how that great recession may had compounded the problem), then domino effect not finding match inspite of all sort of activities in medicine. However one sliced it or diced it, but that case is an exceptional, one may find once in a decade.
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@twoinanddone my point is…medical students do NOT need private loans. They can fully fund medical school with their Direct Loans and Grad Plus Loans…which do not require a cosigner or guarantor.
The question is…will these loans get any loan forgiveness?
No, medical students shouldn’t, because medical field has PSLF option, biggest reason is the match failure (mainly happens to offshore medical schools graduates, also at the same time those offshore schools are for-profit, in other words makes money off American taxpayer money). Generally offshore medical schools are attended by very well being students, also have connections in mainland, who otherwise don’t care if that money spent doesn’t result in a intended profession, all they care is a tag at end of their name.
Is it expected that the lender will appeal the court decision in the case with the write-off of student loans?
I doubt they will do as the decision was 12/4/20 and article states DOE hasn’t appealed, so at this point almost 3 months. Even they appeal there is nothing to recoup from that individual as he has only 17 years of working life left. Based on his education profile, he passed UG in 2002 at duke, based on that he is already 41 years old w/o any meaningful assets.