Big Salary but no Savings or Retirement looking to get into the Ivies

Paying for College
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<p>Fortunately, since the OP said his son will be applying next year, it sounds like his son is a junior. So, although it’s too late to sock away extra for retirement (since that will show up as “untaxed income” for 2011), there is still time to do some things to decrease assets in the next year before the first FAFSA is filed.</p>

<p>However, it sounds like there isn’t much left in terms of assets, so the EFC will be based mostly on income. Entomom, some schools do ask about debt in supplemental questions on the Profile, but it’s really not clear what they do with that information. I’ve read a lot of the materials on the “consensus methodology” used by the Presidents’ 568 Group. It sounds like that methodology makes some adjustments when retirement assets or other assets are either considerably above or considerably below what is typical for any given income level. In the OP’s situation, a family with a $250K income would be expected to have quite a bit socked away for retirement. Since this family had to spend all their assets, even for retirement, and declare bankruptcy, this family would be considered atypical and these schools might well adjust the family contribution. I just don’t have any sort of feel as to just how significant any adjustment might be.
This site is about the 568 Group, lists the member schools, and discusses the Consensus Methodology: [568</a> Presidents’ Group: 568group.org](<a href=“http://568group.org/index.html]568”>Website)</p>

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<p>None of these things will reduce the AGI for the FAFSA year. The OP says they have NO SAVINGS…thus their assets are low. Contributions to your retirement for the FAFSA year are added back in to the financial aid calculations formulas…so even that would not reduce AGI.</p>

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<p>One strategy would be to have the student take a GAP year which would allow the parents to stash one year’s worth of retirement money away for themselves, and to create a small savings fund for college before they are caught up in the financial aid machinery. Of course whenever he does go to college, that 250k income would still be on the table, but one year’s worth of retirement money would be invisible to FAFSA.</p>

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<p>MIT does not offer athletic scholarships or merit-based aid.</p>

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<p>I have not done this myself, but I have seen other posters stating that some Ivies will give a FA “pre-read” for some highly recruited students. Perhaps the OP should pursue the strategies of applying widely, communicating all the while with the student that finances will play a crucial portion. If a few Ivy coaches are very interested, see if a pre read is possible. I know there was a parent posting last year, I believe of an athlete who was shocked at how little the highly selective school gave her child and was left scrambling trying to find option.</p>

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<p>thumper is right, the family can’t really do much/anything to reduce it’s family contribution since it’s their high income that is determining their "family contribution.'</p>

<p>There are few financial gymnastics that people can do when they have a high income so that they can get aid. </p>

<p>This family needs to determine how much it can contribute each year. If the amount is much less than the cost of an ivy, then other options can be considered.</p>

<p>This family is really lucky. their income changed while their child is a junior, therefore they have over a year to start saving for college. If over the next year, they set aside $30-50k for college, they can continue those saving habits over the course of the college years…they can make payments to the college.</p>

<p>While it may sound shocking to save $30-50k in one year, the OP says that the family is not used to this high income, therefore they are used to living on much less. The worse thing this family could do is to adjust their spending habits UP with this high income.</p>

<p>You pretty much have to accept the fact that if your child attends an Ivy or other elite that doesn’t give merit and doesn’t give athletic scholarships, then you’re going to have to pay for all the costs. If that’s not possible, then it’s good to know that NOW, so you can consider other choices.</p>

<p>OP…how much do you think you can spend each year on your child’s college costs?</p>

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<p>We actually started our research when he was early in his freshman year. However, with each year circumstances changed and what applied for us in 09 was not the same 10. This year, we were blessed with many positive mchanges in our circumstances so, again, the data we gathered about our approach did not apply. We went from being Aid-worthy to a new status, hence the scrambling to get new information. We plan on being able contributing up to 30K, we have other kids and other debts to pay down.</p>

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<p>Thank you.</p>

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<p>We plan on being able contributing up to 30K, we have other kids and other debts to pay down</p>

<p>Up to $30k will still be enough for many schools. It sounds like your son has high stats, so there are schools that will give him really good merit scholarships that when combined with your contribution will be enough.</p>

<p>Is his sport one that would be given an athletic scholarship (at the schools that give such)? </p>

<p>Tip…whatever you think that you can pay, it may be best to somewhat underestimate that amount. Since your large income is new to you and you have debt to pay down, you may find that coming up with your initial “estimate” will be very difficult. Also, since you have other children to consider, you may want to be careful about whatever precedence you set up with the first child.</p>

<p>There are costs that are “over and above” COA - especially when a child goes far away to school. For this reason, I think it’s a good idea to assume that you’re going to need a few extra thousand each year for costs that you may not have considered.</p>

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<p>You definitely need a good guide (like Chany’s – and there may be others). You have a highly specific and unusual situation. Most families either have a great income or totally do not – you don’t see that many here that zoom from ugh to happy in short order. A guide that lays out how each line of the FAFSA works and how fin aid offices typically view different situations can help you play your hand well – particularly since there are other kids in the pipeline. </p>

<p>For instance, one normally saves in the adult name over saving in the child’s name – but you might be one of the exceptions. It might be smart to put some money in the younger children’s name – some states have a state tuition prepay plan that can be attractive – and still useable for out of state tuition, should it come to that. </p>

<p>You’ll need to master the details to know the best path forward.</p>

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<p>The original!</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/349837-any-upper-middle-black-posters-house.html?highlight=HBCU[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/349837-any-upper-middle-black-posters-house.html?highlight=HBCU&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Circa 5/2007</p>

<p>"A friend recommended a private college counselor to get a view other than the one given by my daughter’s school counselor which is overly optimistic in my view. I spent an hour on the phone with her today.</p>

<p>Her opinion is that there are so few high scoring URM candidates, those who have high stats from strong schools are hard to turn down at most colleges even while the press is on to recruit low income minorities. While I hope she’s correct, time will tell! "</p>

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<p>Her opinion is that there are so few high scoring URM candidates, those who have high stats from strong schools are hard to turn down at most colleges even while the press is on to recruit low income minorities. While I hope she’s correct, time will tell!</p>

<p>While I agree that high stat URMs (especially male) are hard to turn down, that doesn’t translate into financial aid from schools that are “need-based” only. It might help at the schools that do give merit.</p>

<p>My neighborhood is about 25-30% African American. This is a professional neighborhood. Everyone is an engineer, MD, Orthodontist, or a very high-ranking military officer (I have 2 generals on my street). The children obviously have have little to no need in this neighborhood and most go to private K-12. The AA families pay full-freight at need-only universities. So, while high stat , high income URMs get admitted, it doesn’t translate into more money - unless it’s a merit giving school.</p>

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<p>Every so often, I hear athletes that are already in college or have graduated from college (as well as coaches from Ivy Leagues) state that Ivy league sports do not offer athletic scholarships. Only “need based” scholarships are allowed. Then after they make that comment, they follow up with a backhanded comment stating that coaches can make allowances under the table. What is the real deal with that? I thought I was misunderstanding this the first time someone said this to me, but since then, I have had coaches and current collegiate athletes make the same comments to me, my teenager and my teenager’s friends as well. I am not comfortable asking “straight forward” whether or not they do this. If it is done “under the table” or not, I feel it would be inappropriate for me to imply they do this. Has anyone else experienced these mixed messages?</p>

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<p>Athletics is its own world – and each sport is different. It’s scary, because a young person can get swept along thinking that the “Adults” (ie, the coaches) know and follow the rules. I think your best bet to start asking “Who is the coach/college with the most impeccable reputation?” “How do they recruit?” – it might be worth some emails to some Jesuit colleges (Gonzaga? Villanova?) and simply say that you are a parent and you want to inform yourself to the legal and moral aspects of college sports. An assistant coach there might point you to a website or other material that lays out the pitfalls and standard sales pitches. </p>

<p>Lastly, keep in mind that the 8 Ivy League schools are all East Coast, where housing and other costs are high-- so an income that seems pretty decent elsewhere in the country may register as “needy” by Ivy League standards. Our son received a strong aid package at Dartmouth (he’s not an athlete) because we qualify, income wise. We still had plenty to pay, but they did also treat him very well. </p>

<p>Your kid may be mortified that you are asking tons of questions but now is the perfect time to get the answers – before the kid puts a foot wrong!</p>

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<p>I have not been on this site for several months as I began the college search and selection process with my son.</p>

<p>After many months of navigating the Ivy league financial aid process it pains me to say that the advice and opinions I have received on this site are absolutely false, unhelpful and dangerous. I am disappointed in this site as it clearly provides little good guidance for middle class folks who make a good salary but are squeezed by the economy and who make more than the advertised limits of the Ivies.</p>

<p>My son was accepted to and will be attending an Ivy League school in 2012 and the financial aid was quite generous. If you are a middle income or upper middle income family please don’t listen to these folks on this site who pass themselves off as informed or experts. These are the type of people who go to car dealerships and pay the sticker price and not those those who know there is a gap between the advertised price and the price that the dealer is willing to let the car go for. Don’t pay full if you don’t have to.</p>

<p>Go directly to the schools FA departments, do not put your income into the calculators that they have on their sites as these are inaccurate and discouraging. Lobby for your child and demand to speak with senior financial aid people. Our first read was done by low level people who just plugged numbers into formulas and ran with the results as gospel. They can’t make decisions and what you need is a decision maker.</p>

<p>Do not take no for an answer. This is a negotiation and the first offer is just a starting point, not the end.</p>

<p>My son was offered assistance from Princeton, Cornell & UPenn and was given full scholarships from Stanford and several other top 20 schools which he turned down to attend his dream cIvy university.</p>

<p>I feel more empowered having done it the way that I did and could write a book based on my family’s journey. All I can tell anyone who has been told not to even bother if your income is over $250K is don’t pay heed to the nay sayers. Create a planned approach and definitely play one financial aid result from one school against another. </p>

<p>It may seem a bit crass. However, why would you drive miles just to get the best price on gas for your car and not do the same for your kid’s education?</p>

<p>The schools are looking at this from a business perspective and so should you. Do an early read and use that as your baseline going forward. And, if your kid has a particular gift, this is a bargaining chip as not all Ivy League students are created equally, as much as they would like you to believe differently. </p>

<p>Each school interprets your financials differently and the gap can be startling. One school can give $0 while another will give you $25K or more. What you do then is take back school B’s read to school A and and then they will likely provide matching assistance. </p>

<p>The whole process makes zero sense to me but that is not the point. The point is to get your kid in and play the process the way it was designed to be played. You will also find that some Ivies will look down on you with disdain for daring to ask for assistance at your salary level, while others wil truly spend time looking a your financials to see what your true ability to pay is. Cornell and UPenn are two such schools who will work with you cordially and compassionately. They show a deep understanding for the squeezing of the middle class that schools like Harvard and Princeton don’t. The latter two simply look at your income. their FA departments seem to care more about protecting their endowment than looking at how to make it work for the kids. This is the antithesis of analyzing your ability to pay.</p>

<p>Anyway, I could go on longer about the process and what I discovered as a parent. If I can help you in any way. Please feel free to let me know and i will add some truth and actual experience in my response.</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

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<p>Taking you up in your helpful offer, which schools provided good financial aid, and how much?</p>

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<p>The parents were not totally wrong, because you have just stated yourself that some schools did not give you financial aid.</p>

<p>Congrats on getting financial aid this year, which based on the timing of this posting, your son applied ED they used your 2010 income and gave a financial reveiw based on the fact that you recently came into this income and your other extenuating circumstances. However, is this your finalized financial aid package for the 2012-2012 school year based on the filing of your FAFSA and your 2011 income?</p>

<p>Before you start your happy dance and get your righteous indignation on about how people do not know what they are talking about, keep in mind that you must reapply for financial aid every year. This means the package that you have received this year, will most likely not be the package that you get next year, year 3 or year 4. No one will be doing a bait and switch on you, the school will just look at your financial picture each year.</p>

<p>My advice islet us know if you continue to get this great financial aid package in year 2, 3 and 4 at the same level which you have received it this year. All the best to you and yours.</p>

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<p>I am confused to how your son has already been accepted to schools that have restrictive early action only (i.e., Stanford and Princeton).</p>

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<p>Then the income you reported for 2011 was NOT $250,000…sorry…but it was not.</p>

<p>And agree…both Princeton and Stanford have a single choice EA policy. So…amazing that he applied and got accepted early to ALL of those schools…</p>

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<p>The above is FROM the Stanford website.</p>

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<p>I think that because son was a recruited athlete (and the #1 AA male in his sport) he may have received likely letters to all of these schools. He also most likely received an early read from all of these schools so that he would have some idea as to what his EFC would be year 1.</p>

<p>However, he could only apply to one school through the early decision or REA process.</p>

<p>Since according to OP this is a done deal and hind sight being 20/20, if it were me and mine & affordability was an issue, I would have taken the full ride athletic scholarship at Stanford. </p>

<p>This way, as long as son was able to compete in his sport, the money would still come regardless of the family’s income and asset. What he received at his chosen Ivy is not guaranteed for all 4 years.</p>