Big4 Revenues

College Majors Business Major
1

<p>Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Revenues $26.578bn Employees 170,000
Revenue/Employee $156,000</p>

<p>PwC (officially PricewaterhouseCoopers) Revenues $26.569bn Employees 162,000
Revenue/Employee $164,000</p>

<p>Ernst & Young Revenues $21.255bn Employees 140,964
Revenue/Employee $150,000</p>

<p>KPMG Revenues $20.630bn Employees 137,835
Revenue/Employee $150,000</p>

<p>Manpower Staffing Revenues $19bn Employees 30,000
Revenue/Employee $633,000</p>

<p>McDonalds Revenues $24.07bn Employees 400,000
Revenue/Employee $60,000</p>

<p>JP Morgan Revenues $102.694 bn Employees 239,831
Revenue/Employee $428,000</p>

<p>Intel Revenues $43.623 bn Employees 82500
Revenue/Employee $528,000</p>

<p>Google Revenues $30 bn Employees 24,400
Revenue/Employee $1,229,508</p>

<p>Average Staff accounting salary nationwide aside from public accounting firms is around $35000/year</p>

<p>Accountant</a> Accounting Jobs on CareerBuilder.com</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Accounting salaries have been in a decline due to recruiting firms and temporary accounting jobs, which #1 makes wages more flexible and #2 reduces bargaining rights. Guess who is profiting from that..Staffing companies like Manpower.</p></li>
<li><p>Second problem is that accountants/auditing as an industry are perceived not to add value to the economy. In other words, it is like working a McDonald's job for 2-3x the salary (comparing public accounting salary to McDonald's). Accounting is the backbone of capitalism, but workers are paid like they are flipping burgers.</p></li>
<li><p>No comparison has been made to accountants who work in the private sector earning considerably less.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Oh well, I’m still happy.</p>

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<p>Do you have any forecast on Accounting wages in the near future due to the ever increasing number of Accounting majors?</p>

4

<p>I also just saw an article stating that because of the retiring baby boomers new accounting talent will be in high demand in the near future. Ill try to find the link.</p>

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<p>You do realize that your data is completely irrelevant? Taking the revenues (not even income!) and dividing it to by the amount of employees just gives you how much revenue, on average, each employee contributes to the company. Do you see something wrong with that? Of course JP Morgan’s revenue/employee is higher! They have higher revenues and less employees. In terms of comparisons, your data says nothing.</p>

<p>Also, I don’t know about you, but I haven’t heard of too many McDonalds employees getting paid $26/hour when they first start flipping burgers.</p>

<p>Accountants will always be in demand, regardless of the economy’s status. Someone, somewhere will always need someone to keep their books, do their taxes, verify that the financial statements are correct.</p>

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<p>sp1212
NO! </p>

<p>acntmajor
Pure PR stunt! They focus on the demand not the supply of accountants (see sp1212). Out of all the accounting students, how many are hired by the Big 4? What is the turnover rate?</p>

<p>rusoboy23
On the contrary, it is very relevant! It tells you that inflation adjusted salaries for accountants have little room to grow in the future. It is generally unprofitable to pay workers who contribute less than 3x revenue. As you can see, accounting salaries are in the bottom (not bottoming out, but in the bottom!). </p>

<p>Revenue/Employee for Mcdonalds $60,000 Employee Compensation $15-20k/year
Revenue/Employee for Big4 around $155,000 Employee Compensation $42-55k/year</p>

<p>It is unlikely that salary for accountants will rise any further, because as discussed marginal revenue generated is inadequate to justify higher compensation. When comparing the wage of McDonalds employees who earn “minimum wage”, “public accountants” earn 2-3x more on average. The Big 4 employees do audit work. McDonalds employees flip burgers. </p>

<p>One widely used measurement for staffing firms is exactly Revenue/Employee. Suppose PR is release saying “Accountants are in Demand!!!” the Revenue/Employee and other key performance measure for staffing firms is bound to turn positive and in Accounting, it’s hard to lose due to government reporting requirements.</p>

<p>I am surprised the Big 4 have not seen staffing firms as a threat rather than a benefit. Of course accounting will always be in demand due to government reporting requirements, but unlike McDonalds which actually have a product to sell, the Big 4’s product isn’t that stellar. While unsanitary food may shut down one McDonalds location, the handling of Enron caused the demise of an entire accounting firm (Arthur Andersen).</p>

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<p>I don’t think you grasp the fact that the Big 4 are largely stepping stones for accounting majors into higher positions, usually in the private sector. Yeah, a entry level accountant makes 50-55k a year; but, I won’t be complaining. Even if you stay with the Big 4, partners make on average over 300k a year, which ain’t to shabby. If you are looking to be a quadrillionaire when you grow up, public accounting isn’t for you. If you want a decent and stable living, then accounting is where its at.</p>

<p>Basically, I don’t see what you are proving by comparing public accounting firms with the most profitable technology sector companies? I would like to see how easily you will get an entry-level job out of college at Google as opposed to Big 4.</p>

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<p>trizz75
To get into higher position requires experience. It is the same in all industries! A quick nationwide search on Careerbuilders reveals that entry level accountants will make around $35k+/yr and likely not more than $50k unless you live in an area with high cost of living or have some experience under your belt, which wouldn’t qualify as entry level.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t call $35k/year decent compensation considering the time you spent in college, the opportunity cost of not entering into a field with more upside, and the high cost of tuition.</p>

<p>Don’t forget that most accountants are paid salaried and put in SIGNIFICANTLY more than 40 hrs/wk and do not get the benefit of overtime pay. There are three benefits that are important for a typical worker which I define as one who earns between ($15k-60k/yr) #1 Social Security and retirement plan #2 Insurance #3 Overtime Pay. Anything beyond that higher salary and benefits kicks in. In the accounting industry #1, #2, and #3 are in a decline or no longer exists and are unlikely to rise as my comparison pointed out. The bonus for GM blue collar employees was around $5,000 and for white collar employees $10,000. Does Accounttemps pay bonus?? If so, I’d like to hear how much employees received.</p>

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<p>For service firms rev/emp is very important as there is little other cost of goods sold outside office rent and travel expenses. So an employee has to produce about double his pay to come close to breaking even due to mgt overhead and such. And they cannot apy the average employee anywhere near the avg revenue or they’ll go broke. A good rule is about 30-40% or your revenue = your pay. Higher the rev the higher the percent can get ao if you produce $1,000,000 you might make 50% of that or more.</p>

<p>Avg accting majors from flagship level schools get about $50K plus bonus at Big 4 firms.</p>

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<p>What is your point exactly? That accountants are underpaid, or that students shouldn’t major it?</p>

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<p>“What is your point exactly? That accountants are underpaid, or that students shouldn’t major it?”</p>

<p>I’m trying to figure out the point as well. Is 45k/year + bonus + benefits + the resume building prestige of Big 4 NOT something that many people would love to have straight outta college?</p>

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<p>Threadstarter is just ****ed he got rejected or he has a crummy job. Note: This thread includes the first post on his account. Pretty bad ■■■■■ job. Either way, I enjoy Big 4 and my salary. So what if I’m still at work right now.</p>

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<p>“Either way, I enjoy Big 4 and my salary. So what if I’m still at work right now.” </p>

<p>Are you really? Kinda was hoping that whole staying at work till the wee hours of the night thing was mostly exaggeration lol</p>

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<p>Going along with inmotion, what exactly are you trying to say? Going to college to earn an accounting degree is on par with a “blue collared job” out of high school? That’s foolish. You think entry level accountants do not receive at least insurance and 401k’s? Please…</p>

<p>Lastly, you continuously point to your one statistic. If there is disagreement regarding the legitimacy of your statistic on this thread, how on Earth could you then reference it in order to convince viewers of this thread? I think Dawgie is spot on.</p>

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<p>I’d just like to point out in the link OP posted to career builder for “accountant” jobs had a limit for up to only 40k salary if you clicked on “advanced” and saw the settings to refine the search. Don’t know if he did this to show entry level jobs or to try to deceptively show low salaries. If one were to change these setting to say, 90k->120k, they’d see that there are plenty of well-paying positions for accountants with a CPA, about 8 years experience, and some Big 4 work. Assuming an age of 22 at graduation, 8 years work would put the individual at 30. Obviously this is assuming the individual is qualified for the job, but any career that can give me good entry level salary, no huge debt for long schooling, and the ability to make it to a pretty nice salary by age 30 is nice for me.</p>

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<p>Inmotion12
It’s my personal analysis of compensation for accountants!</p>

<p>domrom1
the point is there in the thread! </p>

<p>Dawgie
get back to work!</p>

<p>trizz75
Nope! There seems to be a profound lack of critical reasoning ability among the posters in this forum or plain ignorance. Apparently, Barrons seems to be the only one who understands.</p>

<p>domrom1
point well taken!</p>

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<p>The offer that starting accts straight out of college are getting in my low cost of living area is over $50,000, plus benefits per year. Also $5000 bonus for passing CPA in 1st year, $3500 after that.</p>

<p>Not too shabby for a 22 year old. My poor older son who’s been out of college for 3 years and works in the banking industry would love that salary. ;)</p>

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<p>^ Ag54, sign me up for that any day of the week! Not too shabby at all. The thing people always go back to is, well the hourly wage isnt that much because you work a lot. So what?! Whats the alternative? All workers straight out of college work hard. What else is there? You think starting engineers don’t work more than 40 hrs a week? How bout med student grads starting residency? They work like dogs too, then have to pay off debt for 15 year. I don’t see how accounting is a bad thing. The best? Probably not. But its not bad.</p>

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<p>50k a year
5000 for CPA passing bonus
Benefits that cover health, eye, dental, car insurance, 401(k) matching, pension, per diem travel, etc.
Prestige for future jobs
Stepping ladder of promotion with at least some level of certainty</p>

<p>…this is all for audit/tax. If you include the Advisory side, then you need to consider all of the free flights, hotels, meals, etc. that an associate racks up right after school.</p>

<p>With a credit card with decent rewards:</p>

<p>Hilton Surpass AMEX: 9x points on all Hilton hotels
Delta Platinum AMEX: Quick access to the Medallion club and basically a free flight every 25,000 miles. I think it is 2x for flight expenses, and 1x on everything else.</p>

<p>If someone is flying every week and staying in hotels 4 nights a week…well, that is one hell of a “perk.” All the firms also allow you to fly anywhere for free rather than home (if similar price of ticket). Working in Chicago for the week…want to see NYC? Jump on a plane at the firm’s cost. I value these sort of benefits as much as some of the insurance.</p>

<p>Total pay compensation can easily hit $75,000 for someone right out of college.</p>

<p>No complaints from me.</p>

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<p>But how about the working conditions Goose? You always provide great posts, so I’m interested in your take on it. I keep hearing/reading stories about working till 1 AM very frequently. CPAnet has lots of it. Just curious if this is mostly exaggerated or mostly true.</p>