Bill Gates commencement speech at Harvard: What Do You Think?

Parents Forum
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<p>Yes, and Dana Point, CA -- a few miles north of here in Orange County is named for him.</p>

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<p>Coureur:</p>

<p>Yes, I do know that the Gates Foundation was Melinda's idea. His parents had not succeeded in getting him involved in philanthropic work before. I was tongue-in-cheek when saying that he did it all on his own, as it was implied that drop outs are in danger of being solipsistic.</p>

<p>If he should go back, would he be learning from the new FAS Dean (comp sci prof) or teaching him?</p>

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<p>Hmmm...I'm surprised to be arguing this with you marite, but let's talk about the relative 'good' that arises out of Zuckerberg's billions. Had he stayed at Harvard, he would have missed out on the billion from Facebook--but that isn't the same as binning him in the poorhouse. There is no question that someone would have invented Facebook at or about the time it was invented. Is there an inherent social 'good' in the fact that Zuckerberg dropped out and became the inventor/promoter of Facebook? I think not. I think Mr Zuckerberg would have been plenty wealthy no matter when he finished at Harvard. I don't thik there is an inherent social 'good' in the fact that Zuckerberg launched Facebook. Nor do I think that there would have been a corresponding bad if he had only made millions instead of billions.</p>

<p>AS for whether or not the majority of business people have time to delve into intellectual interests, I would have to say, on empirical knowledge alone, that the majority do NOT have time to recapture the lost time of intellectual exploration. Don't believe me? Pick up any business book and wade through it's one inch deep theories.</p>

<p>Why do business people lose out? Paritially, it may be because the majority will not accrue enough wealth to retire or semi-retire early enough--or they may not feel an intellectual drive having spent the majority of their adulthood without one. Also, the majority college drop-outs or high school grads feel a stigma of their non-education. I see this phenomena on the construction sites--even when workers are making six figures.</p>

<p>Perhaps Gates was different. Perhaps his royal birth and natural arrogance cut out any sense of stigma. On the other hand, his caustic temper was legendary in the first two decades of Microsoft. He needed a toughie like Ballmer to put up with it. One could argue that his lack of formal education was a point of discomfort for him. </p>

<p>I stick by my point. Most entreprenuers and dynamic business people do not have the time to maintain an intellectual life on top of their leisure, family and business life. Some of this is cultural, however, because I notice that attorneys, physicians and architects do seem to make the time.
Academics of course, don't count. ;)</p>

<p>I've thought about this quite a lot becuase I have one boy with ants in his pants. He cannot wait to get out into the market with his inventions. I have had a few PMs from parents in similar positions. In my mind, there is a big risk to letting mine loose at eighteen to pursue his millions or billions--and I have clearly articulated those risks to him. So far--he's buying. Fingers crossed he gets some endorphin highs at uni....</p>

<p>Sure, he could get a second chance if he marries a Melinda Gates but that's another gamble. I'd rather fork out the cash for uni and have that matter in hand. A good uni will deliver a good intellectual experience--one that may be deep enough for him to draw upon during the subsequent years of million and billion making.</p>

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<p>Maybe if Bill Gates went back to Harvard, he could bring Steve Jobs. They could team teach a class to fulfill work-study obligations.
"Hi, I'm a PC."
"And I'm a Mac."</p>

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<p>Cheers:</p>

<p>Who says that the purpose of entrepreneurship is "social good" and it does not matter who produces innovations? From my perspective as a consumer, it does not matter who produces the innovation or profits materially from it, whether it's Zuckerberg or someone else. But I'd think very poorly of someone who is not burning for sainthood to turn up his nose at the opportunity to make billions.<br>
I also think that it is a fallacy to think that one's education stops after college or grad school. As is repeated ad nauseam at every Commencement, the end of college is the beginning, not the end, of the journey toward becoming better educated, more knowledgeable.
Now, attending college is the easiest way to acquire some learning because that's what colleges are supposed to be about; but going to college is a fairly recent phenomenon. Jane Austen didn't. But that does not mean she was un-educated. As well getting a degree is the prudent thing to do, because not every entreprise pans out, and one needs a degree to get hired (but hey, Latetoschool did not go to college and she is one of the smartest posters on CC and makes a pretty good living).
So let me not discourage anyone from attending college, your S included. But I do not think that Bill Gates is a good example of the fate that awaits those who drop out of college, whether they succeed wildly or fail miserably.</p>

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<p>
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I'd think very poorly of someone who is not burning for sainthood to turn up his nose at the opportunity to make billions.

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<p>That is a moral judgement--and in direct opposition to my beliefs. I think very poorly of those who cannot postpone their desire to make millions and billions for a greater social good--taking the time as a natural leader to study the world around them and behind them to a greater depth.</p>

<p>Accordingly, you must think 'very poorly' of my son because he is turning down substantial venture capital to attend uni. He will not be launching his inventions this year or next. That delay may affect the level of his wealth.</p>

<p>pur...I love those Mac commercials with the Jobs and Gates look alikes. Classics.</p>

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<p>No, I do not think poorly of your son or anyone who decides to attend college instead of cashing in on some invetion. It's, for most people, the prudent thing to do. And college is indeed the easiest way to learn.</p>

<p>As for college education, by and large, it's not done for the greater good of mankind, but of the one individual who is acquiring that education. Even doctors or profs or architects. There are very very few people who go to college in order to do good. And doing good on someone else's dime usually gets one fired. So it's better to be in the position that Bill Gates has always been in, of having plenty of money as a cushion to begin with, and to dispense later when even more money was accumulated.</p>

<p>Steve Ballmer had other roommates besides Gates. Most of them did graduate. One of them is the brother of a friend of mine. Years after college, the brother invested his money (and some of Ballmer) into a venture that went belly up. For Ballmer, it was chump change. For the friend's brother, it was all his money. </p>

<p>My H has not been employed in the field in which he got his several degrees. He has had to learn, sometimes on the job, sometimes by taking evening classes. Most people do go on learning after college or grad school.</p>

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<p>I agree that most bright people continue to learn through their entire lives. It is the type of learning that can be influenced by the decision to go to uni and stay in uni for four years. </p>

<p>For example, it is my hope that my sons read history and literature throughout their lives. I believe serious reading of history and literature influences human decision-making to the greater social good. </p>

<p>If my sons do not get the opportunity to deepen their range of reading at university, when will that happen? After the IPO? I don't think so. They might learn how to fly their Learjet after the IPO, but their knowledge of Shakespeare, Camus and Mao would probably remain at it's eighteen year old level. </p>

<p>For me, that would be a shame. Their eighteen year old knowlegdge is too shallow. That would be a poorer outcome.</p>

<p>I disagree that univeristy has no social purpose. Part of the success of Western culture has been it's extraordinary funding of public univeristy education. Though it's done primarily for economic reasons, the social benefits are huge and well understood by those Western Governments.</p>

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<p>I disagree. Yes, the 18-year old knowledge is shallow. And if one read Shakespeare or Camus at 18 for the first and last time, that knowledge will remain shallow and totally ungrounded on real experience of life, its joys, sorrows, triumphs and failures. Reading Shakespeare or Camus or Mao at 30 or 40 will be a much richer experience. Profs who have taught both 18 and 50 years olds in the same classes report how much they enjoy the perspective that the 50 year olds bring to discussions, perspectives totally lacking from the 18 year olds. </p>

<p>Where did I say that university has no social purpose? I said that people get an education largely to benefit themselves; contributing to the good of mankind comes a poor second, especially when one is 18 and pretty self-absorbed. It's much easier for people to concentrate on studying when they do not have to earn a living or raise a family, so 18-22 is a great time for getting a college education. But once again, that is not the only way or time to gain an education. Think of Bill Gates as going on a extended Gap year during which he learned much that was extremely useful, and not just in terms of business.</p>

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<p>I never formally completed undergrad school (about 2 years worth), but did eventually complete grad school, and was surprised to find my Ivy and other grad school peers appeared to be no better educated than I. Undergrad attendance may facilitate getting an education, but it does not guarantee it, nor is it the only way it is acquired. We speak of Bill Gates, but there are plenty of other very happy & successful "regular folks" who found college was not for them as well.</p>

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<p>
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But I'd think very poorly of someone who is not burning for sainthood to turn up his nose at the opportunity to make billions.

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<p>Why?</p>

<p>That statement really, really puzzles me.</p>

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<p>I have the greatest admiration for people who want to work for Oxfam, Teach for America, and various humanitarian outfits. By and large, however, they are not the entrepreneurial type. If an individual wants to be an entrepreneur, he has to want to be an entrepreneur, not to save the world. If he wishes to save the world, he won't come back later on and try to make millions. It usually works the other way--you make millions then think of ways to spend them for the benefit of mankind. So the idea that Mark Zuckerberg could just turn up his nose at the prospect of cashing in on his good idea now with the thought that he could strike gold again later on with another good idea , to me, is a non-starter. Will lightning strike twice? will he walk away again?</p>

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<p>Gates would have done well to quote Edward Gibbon, that august Oxford dropout who believed that little scholarship of enduring values was likely to be conducted at universities, "The power of instruction is seldom of much efficacy except in those happy dispositions where it is almost superfluous."</p>

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<p>From my experience, those who have chosen to leave college early to pursue their "riches" are the staunchest supporters of higher education for their offspring. My dad quit college early and he was a huge proponent of college and post graduate school for us kids. I've seen other examples of this.</p>

<p>Now, the Gates Foundation is very involved with improving public high school education in this country and providing college scholarships.</p>

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<p>As with the oft-truncated aphorism from Henry VI, in which Dick the Butcher actually is urging the killing of lawyers in an effort to prevent truth and justice, the cited Gibbon quotation, mini, is not as generalized as you would imply. </p>

<p>The quotation about the "power of instruction" is lifted from the epic Decline and Fall. Its subject is the fatally inept emperor Commodus, whose twelve year reign was near the close of the second century (AD 180-192). Gibbon viewed Commodus as the instigator of Rome's decline. Commodus's father was, of course, Marcus Aurelius, perhaps the most learned and the ultimate member of the quintet of "good" Roman emperors. In this context, "the monstrous vices of the son" (Commodus) "have cast a shade on the purity of the father's motives", because, "he sacrificed the happiness of millions to a fond partiality for a worthless boy" in designating Commodus as his successor. </p>

<p>Gibbon writes, "Nothing was neglected by the anxious father, and by the men of virtue and learning whom he summoned to his assistance, to expand the narrow mind of young Commodus, to correct his growing vices, and to render him worthy of the throne. But the power of instruction is seldom of much efficacy except in those happy dispositions where it is almost superfluous. The distasteful lesson of a grave philosopher was, in a moment, obliterated by the whisper of a profligate favorite; and Marcus himself blasted the fruits of this labored education, by admitting his son, at the age of fourteen or fifteen, to a full participation of the Imperial power."</p>

<p>Thus, Gibbon was clearly stating that education may be of little utility for the unintelligent, the lazy, and the wastrel (i.e., students who "game" and party all the time), but was not condemning it for the bright, the scholar, and the interested student. On them, a college education is indeed efficacious and worthy; the better the education, the better for us all.</p>

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<p>"Thus, Gibbon was clearly stating that education may be of little utility for the unintelligent, the lazy, and the wastrel (i.e., students who "game" and party all the time), but was not condemning it for the bright, the scholar, and the interested student."</p>

<p>Actually, if you read the Gibbon quote in its context (of which I was well aware), it is even stronger than I suggested. Instead of saying that education would be wasted on the "wastrel" and "profligate", he went out of his way to go much, much further - "except in those happy dispositions where it is almost superfluous." He provides no examples of such "happy dispositions", only of the "profligate". In other words, the context suggests that Gibbon was going far beyond his example to make a statement MORE generalized than warranted by his example.</p>

<p>(By the way, Gibbon does this all the time - generalizing for our edification far beyond what the "history" warrants - and influenced by his own personal experience, which is what makes his work so entertaining.)</p>

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<p>I disagree, mini, and believe the seeds of refutation lie in your reply.</p>

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<p>Did Marcus Aurelius, the most learned of the good Roman emperors, go to college?
The debate is not about whether education is a good thing; it is. It is whether it is confined to college, between the ages of 18 and 22.</p>

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<p>I guess I just view things a bit differently. Being an entreprenuer is being a humanitarian. Bill Gates has created numerous jobs both at Microsoft and at at many other companies. Further the efforts of Microsoft has made the economy more efficient and has improved all of our lives.</p>

<p>Yes he has done well for himself at the same time but I am not sure he could have had any better impact by being a "humanitarian" using the standard terms, i.e. Peace Corp, etc.</p>

<p>Unfortunately for Mr. Gates I am not a big fan of Microsoft. I am a Mac person. Though I am sure he doesn't need the contribution from me.</p>

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<p>Of course not, since colleges and universities are a medieval invention. But he was very well educated in his youth:</p>

<p>"The youth's education embraced both rhetoric and philosophy; his manner was serious, his intellectual pursuits deep and devoted, so that the emperor Hadrian took an interest in him and called him "Verissimus," "Most truthful," by punning on his name.[[2]] He received public honors from an early age and seems to have long been in Hadrian's mind as a potential successor."</p>

<p><a href="http://www.roman-emperors.org/marcaur.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.roman-emperors.org/marcaur.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>