<p>
</p>
<p>I think a go-getter of a kid will almost always do well, regardless of major, and a non-go-getter of a kid won’t do well no matter what the major. PEOPLE trump majors and schools.</p>
<p>Looking:
the Mount Holyoke link seems to demonstrate the point. The interesting stuff is restricted access. Would it be available to a perspective student?</p>
<p>The links to what you can do with a particular major are all marketing puffery. “Great positions for students with this major:” Well maybe they are great, but let me decide. What many kids got them? What less “great” jobs did those kids get. How much are these jobs actually paying?</p>
<p>I think we can all agree today its hard (at least non-trivial) for a kid to evaluate which of 5 college and maybe 2 or 3 majors is going to have the best economic payback for him. Balance that across the 5 different school having 5 different True Costs of attendance and chances of successful graduation and the chance of a kid who is in the process of signing up for the second largest purchase of his life making an optimal decision in today’s low information environment is small.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think it’s more than a little amusing that the usual big government types have finally met a government program they dont like. Even though it hasnt been sized yet, we are assured its Too Big.</p>
<p>
I’m a small government type and I don’t like it either. I think it is perhaps one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard the government thinking of sticking its nose in. I don’t need to know how big a project it is.</p>
<p>But, along those lines -
Yeah, like nothing mandated by the government ever starts out reasonably and grows uncontrollably unwieldy.</p>
<p>It’s nice being consistent. Try it some time. I think people should choose a college like they choose any purchase. If the school won’t voluntarily supply you with reliable information without legal coercion, cross it off your list.</p>
<p>I think the problem with this is only in so much that students may choose a major based on past economic potential of a major. Things are changing so fast, this can just be a bad strategy.</p>
<p>Look at all the out of work, broke attorneys out there, today. sad but true.</p>
<p>When a lot of the real innovators entered college, there wasn’t really even a major in what they ended up doing, and many who later ended up working in those fields did not have a major in that field, or, to some extent, a degree. </p>
<p>I think the best strategy is to major in what interests you and to get good internships in fields which interest you, as well. fwiw.</p>
<p>But, I don’t care if they want to publish this information. I mean, why not?</p>
<p>ETA: I do agree that go-getters will always trump those who are smart but lazy. Every time.</p>
<p>Arg, I’ll bet a cup of coffee you could call MHC and get visitor access- at least, with a good story. No cake.</p>
<p>And, you and sewhappy have to tell us who these “usual big government types” are. I’m not a big govt type, but do endorse certain govt functions on behalf of society. I’d rather see them spend the $ on something that benefts the needy, improves k-12, reduces violence, all sorts of programs. Or builds real jobs our kids can get. Not more data massaging.</p>
<p>This isn’t a Manhattan Project, but it is overkill. In it’s own way, some sort of entitlement? They tell us, in this format, with this detail or they are scamming us-?</p>
<p>I am not a big government person-- and I think mandates of this nature are almost always a boondoggle for someone (but never beneficial for the tax payers who pay for it) but if indeed there are people out there who need a government mandate to “force” transparency around spurious statistics then go for it.</p>
<p>Does this mean the debates on CC that “every college is as good as every other” or “anyone who pays full freight at Yale when their kid could have gotten a free ride at Baruch is an idiot?” Sigh, the good old days. I miss them already. All it takes is a couple of statistics to set us free.</p>
<p>Seriously- do any of you plan your family budget using the CPI? Does it help my wallet to know that someone who lives in rural Vermont spends much more on gas than I do, since I take public transportation to work?</p>
<p>IMHO, this entire scheme reflects a mentality that higher education is --or perhaps more to the point OUGHT to be-- a like a processing plant in which you pour in specific ingredients at the beginning and a specific product is extruded at the other end.</p>
<p>It isn’t like that. </p>
<p>I think that it reflects a profoundly anti-intellectual mindset: college as job training, nothing more and nothing less. I think that the intent is to punish educators by “proving” through bogus statistics that the “product” they are offering is not worth $$.</p>
<p>Do I think that a lot of colleges are not in fact worth the $$ charged to attend them? Yes, definitely. Would this be likely to identify them? No.</p>
<p>Great post, consolation.</p>
<p>And it’s the people who think like that who don’t have enough of a broad perspective in life that they would ever actually conceive of the anthropology or art history or French lit major getting jobs or contributing to the workplace, because it’s all about Training for Specific Tasks. Blech.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>[MIT’s</a> 2011 career survey](<a href=“http://gecd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/graduation11.pdf]MIT’s”>http://gecd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/graduation11.pdf) lists the following employers for its biology bachelor’s degree graduates:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It also lists the average pay of 6 employed biology bachelor’s degree survey respondents as $36,108, with range of $35,000 to $38,650.</p>
<p>Of course, it is up to the reader to note whether those “working outside of major-specific job categories” went to what appear to be more desirable jobs or less desirable jobs.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>College as a stepping stone to a better job is not mutually exclusive to the purpose of pursuing pure intellectualism. Indeed, it seems to be a common theme here that even being aware about post-graduation job prospects is somehow “beneath” the idea of going to college at all.</p>
<p>It is likely that if college did not give any improvement in employability*, very few people would attend college at all. Most people would not be able to afford to do so (and governments would see no point in having state universities, community colleges, Pell grants, and Stafford loans), and there would only be a few private schools that might as well be country clubs for the scions of the super-wealthy.</p>
<p>*This includes both majors with major-specific job directions, and those without where the completion of the bachelor’s degree is supposed to indicate the capability of studying and learning something in reasonable depth (major), plus whatever breadth education that the school sees as desirable for a bachelor’s degree educated person to have.</p>
<p>To some extent, selectivity – or number of applicants – serves as measure of desirability. If Harvard or other elite schools indeed don’t really “place” any better or provide more opportunities than Average State U, why wouldn’t that be reflected in the size of the applicant pool? Seems like some people don’t believe that free markets sort themselves out.</p>
<p>If you search “job prospects sociology majors”, one of the first hits is [Career</a> Opportunities – Sociology](<a href=“http://sociology.unc.edu/undergraduate-program/sociology-major/career-opportunities]Career”>Career Opportunities - Department of Sociology) at UNC Chapel Hill.</p>
<p>It has a promotional rather than objective tone (“the career potential of sociology majors is almost limitless”), which is not surprising, since the long-term job prospects of UNC sociology professors depend on attracting enough majors. There are no statistics about employment and pay rates of recent graduates. Young people should have objective sources to turn to in deciding what to major in.</p>
<p>One of the department positions listed is Director of Social and Economic Justice. Hmm.</p>
<p>I have one who is an intellectual, and one who is quite bright and would not go to college except that she knows it will make it so that she can earn more money. She likes money.</p>
<p>I have no problem with either of these things and am happy to support my kids educational pursuits in whichever way, for whatever reason, though I did used to have an intellectual bias against the latter until I had a kid like that and saw it made her no less intelligent and no less interesting.</p>
<p>So, if some people want some details on this stuff, that’s fine. I think schools get a pass on providing a lot of information they ought to have to provide now that they have become so expensive and such administrative career builders. Let’s not pretend these schools are the ivory towers of learning they once were. They are big business these days and they charge that way.</p>
<p>Re: #153</p>
<p>Compare the UNC sociology career page with the Berkeley career survey:
<a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Soc.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Soc.stm</a></p>
<p>Or the Virginia Tech career survey (look for the sociology rows):
[Virginia</a> Tech Post-Graduation Report: Plans or status after graduation](<a href=“http://www.career.vt.edu/scripts/PostGrad2006/Report/DetailStatus.asp?College=00&Majors=Y&Cohort=2010-2011]Virginia”>http://www.career.vt.edu/scripts/PostGrad2006/Report/DetailStatus.asp?College=00&Majors=Y&Cohort=2010-2011)
[Virginia</a> Tech Post-Graduation Report: Salaries reported](<a href=“http://www.career.vt.edu/scripts/PostGrad2006/Report/DetailReportSalaries.asp?College=00&Majors=Y&Cohort=2010-2011]Virginia”>http://www.career.vt.edu/scripts/PostGrad2006/Report/DetailReportSalaries.asp?College=00&Majors=Y&Cohort=2010-2011)
[Virginia</a> Tech Post-Graduation Report: Employment related to career goals, major](<a href=“http://www.career.vt.edu/scripts/PostGrad2006/Report/DetailReportEmploymentRelated.asp?College=00&Majors=Y&Cohort=2010-2011]Virginia”>http://www.career.vt.edu/scripts/PostGrad2006/Report/DetailReportEmploymentRelated.asp?College=00&Majors=Y&Cohort=2010-2011)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Free markets are less efficient when participants have less access to information that would let them make more informed decisions.</p>
<p>From Beliavsky’s link:</p>
<p>“One of the most frequent questions students ask about sociology is, “What can I do with a sociology degree?” The answer is that the career potential of sociology majors is almost limitless. Sociologists are employed by research institutes, the criminal justice system, public health and welfare organizations, private businesses, law firms, international agencies, medical centers, educational institutions, advertising firms, survey and polling organizations, and beyond. Students with a bachelor’s degree in sociology often secure employment as social researchers, case workers, paralegals, public relations workers, administrators, community organizers, public policy researchers, and data analysts. Sociology also provides great preparation for going on to law school, medical school, business school, and for graduate degree programs in social work, education, public policy, religious ministry, mass communications, public health, non-profit administration, and international affairs.”</p>
<p>What part of the above isn’t true? It’s like some of you STEM-types can’t conceive of career fields other than the sciences or technology firms.</p>
<p>Why are people reading their personal axes to grind into this bill? Pizza – if kids want to do soc then kids can do soc! But maybe it wouldn’t be bad for kids to know how readily soc grads from the institution they are contemplating get a job or a spot in a good grad program or a fulbright. Right?</p>
<p>Or maybe how grads fare from institutions is just a really tacky low-class awful thing to ask about? I see.</p>
<p>There seems to be this sense that sending your kid off to college - often at considerable expense - should be this sort of religious act of faith. Guarantees? No. I don’t thinks those are even a possibility by the time their kiddo is 18 but reasonable understanding of what their investiment of money and their kid’s investment of time might reasonably bring should be kind of okay!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If we dont know how big it is how do we decide its overkill? Supposedly this is all information we are already paying for under IPEDS but just a new disaggregated presentation.
If it turned out to have low or minimal costs to make it available, would you still oppose it?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well since the student is required to repay their loans with actual money not good wishes, then their has to be some reality in what they are buying.
On the other hand, just because the data is available there is nothing to say that a student needs to heed it. You laud the Classics or Anthropology major- there is nothing to say they cant continue to rank the mere practically of their degree low on their priority list. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Zing, Set and Match.</p>
<p>Its “limitless” in the sense that almost anything has some possibility of happening. You could hit the lottery or marry well. Maybe you will get attacked by a prisoner and get a big settlement from the state. Outside of that you are likely to work in a set of poorly paying jobs working with violent and depressing clientele. Or so I hear from relatives in those professions. </p>
<p>“often secure employment”. “Often” great! Its a soft science but how often?</p>
<p>This actually doesn’t have to be done by the government. US News has had amazing success at getting colleges to jump through hoops and provide data in the past. If they made this part of their data pool, colleges might very well feel they have to comply.</p>
<p>
Interpretation: You won’t get a job in your field, so as a graduate you are likely to be doing almost anything else that gives you a paycheck. Sorry, couldn’t resist… No stab meant at sociology majors, my D1 has a political science degree, and has a great job – but it is not in her field of study.</p>