<p>To the folks who haven't gotten interviews or are getting rejections (including me): </p>
<p>I wanted to post a little pep talk. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>If you get rejected, no worries, it's the school's loss, not yours. Keep in mind that in the last several years there has been a desparate funding climate. According to the Dean of Stanford Med school, funding is causing established Profs., who have previously never struggled for funding, to have to apply for more grants etc. Funding has been cut accross the board. Many schools who built research labs and hired Profs in the last decade are now having to cut back. This affects grad admissions. Less NSF, NIH etc = less grad students. It's not you, it's them. </p></li>
<li><p>So you might not get into the "top program" in the country. . . Don't worry, you can still be famous and successful. Look, there's plenty of very excellent PIs and famous PIs that have found a home at a non-"top program." Maybe they liked that they could buy a large house instead of renting a studio for 3k/mo etc. . . There are also some slave-driving egocentric Profs with zero interpersonal skills at the top programs. I know plenty of miserable grad students at top programs and plenty of very happy ones at range programs. It's who you work for, what you do while you're there, not as much where you go. You can always do a post-doc at the top program.</p></li>
<li><p>At top programs, usually the apps go into a big pile. The admissions coordinators separate them based on grades and GRE scores, then the "maybe" applications are evaluated. I have a friend who published almost a dozen papers, including several first author, in top journals, and LORs from famous Profs at a top school, and he got passed up at top programs due to the numbers game. You are obviously not your grades or GRE scores. How well you memorized the dictionary, or the grades you got when you had to work to support yourself etc. is not as good a metric as your proven factors: letters, pubs, experience. Unfortunately, those don't fit into a quick formula.</p></li>
<li><p>Don't give up. If you miss out this year, one or two years of your life to fix what you can and improve your CV is not the end of the world. It might actually be a great experience! Best of luck. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Sorry to be so verbose, but I hope it helps.</p>
<p>thanks for that comforting post bionerd. to second that (and i'm not a business/econ freak), i heard that much of the American economy is going down because of lots of factors, so it's really possible that maybe NIH and NSF are getting less money. From the grad school applications on, our life can become much like a number game, i.e. we have to be within certain top percentiles of something in order to get what we want. It's scary. I hate to be a number. </p>
<p>my mind is still set on my upcoming interview (which freak me out because it's the only interview I've got so far)...
how in-depth do we need to know about our projects when we discuss it in a grad school interview? is it much of an interrogation, or will the professors only ask to show their interest and see that we can talk about our research?</p>
<p>how likely will there be a formal event scheduled during a 2 - 3 day-long interview visit? I'm not sure if I should bring a formal dress. I don't look forward to a formal though. I know I should've asked the school but now is kind of too late. After all, it's expensive to make a formal event.</p>
<p>
[quote]
how likely will there be a formal event scheduled during a 2 - 3 day-long interview visit? I'm not sure if I should bring a formal dress. I don't look forward to a formal though. I know I should've asked the school but now is kind of too late. After all, it's expensive to make a formal event.
[/quote]
No, no formal events. There are often events where you might like to wear a skirt if you're female (or, I guess, a shirt and tie if you're male), such as dinner at a nice restaurant with faculty members or a faculty-student-recruit social at a museum, but nothing that would require a dress.</p>
<p>I am in agreement with most of what you have to say and find it refreshing to have someone else express the same frustrations as myself. This board often becomes an outlet for self-gratification, whereby discussion of Harvard sets the precedence that "Ivy league" is most important and everywhere else should be shamed. Take a look at the lack of a publication record of most people on the board who have gotten interviews at these programs. I congratulate them because getting an interview at those institutions is quite an achievement. However, in terms of what matters most in science, experience in the written communication of your findings, I know that I have more to offer but due to some unknown factor I have not been invited to the "top" programs. This factor is most likely due to no-name undergraduate school or less than stellar GRE scores or non-famous LOR writers. Who knows?</p>
<p>What we must do now is to do what we love because we find it inspiring and commit to the hard work required to rise in this game. Ultimately the best always rise to the top regardless of where they go to school.</p>
<p>I've been a panicked lurker on here as well. I've heard back from a lot of places, but not with all of the information I need and scheduling these interviews is tough when you're still in school (also when you're working I imagine).
Specifically, has anyone gotten "information packets" from Harvard BBS or Stanford? (I called Stanford and they said the mailed packets would be slightly different than the ones sent by e-mail, if your Home Program did that).
Also, anyone know when the second weekend for BBS is?</p>
<p>Since I'm new, I'll put my schools down:</p>
<p>Applied: UCSD (BMS), Stanford (Micro & Immuno, Biochem, Cancer Bio), UCSF (BMS), Harvard (BBS-BCMP), Columbia (BMS: CMSG Integrated), UCLA (ACCESS), Duke (CMB), UC Berkeley (MCB), UWash-Seattle (MCB)</p>
<p>Rejected: UCSF, UW</p>
<p>Waiting on: UCSD</p>
<p>Interviews: Stanford (M&I, 2/27-3/2), Columbia (1/17-20), UCLA (1/26-28), Duke (2/7-2/10), UCB (2/22-2/26)</p>
<p>I haven't gotten anything in the mail yet from Harvard BBS, but the professor I spoke to on the phone told me that the two admitted students weekends were 2/23 and 3/8.</p>
<p>I kind of agree with what you guys said, but I also think it's just a sugar-coated way to make being rejected feel less discouraging.</p>
<p>I have a few interviews at some of the top schools as well as a few at the still-great-but-less-prestigious schools, and honestly, I'm going to consider them all with the same attitude.</p>
<p>I think you have to realize that a top-school program requires a top-school student. Schools such as Harvard or Stanford are intense, competitive, and composed of the same group of A+ or Ivy-league students. (This is a generalization, not an absolute evaluation of all students at such schools.) And honestly, if you're a student who just loves research but is fairly laid back about accomplishments and hasn't achieved >3.5 grades so far, I'm not sure if you're going to survive or be happy at such a place. On the other hand, if you've been working your ass off for the last 10 years and you have top-notch credentials, and you still got rejected, then you have every right to be disappointed/upset/confused.</p>
<p>Not every program is equal, but there are about 10-20 programs in the country that are all very good, and not all of such programs will be situated at the top-schools as you guys refer to. </p>
<p>My outlook on the application/interview process is this: Do your best to present everything you have to offer. If the school decides that it's not good enough or it's not what they're looking for, then maybe you should trust their decision and realize that you probably wouldn't have been happy or successful there. Maybe they expect something out of all their students that you don't have (eg. intense experience, first-authorships), and you need to go to a school that will nurture you and educate you, rather than one that throws you in the mix and expect you to paddle your way to shore alone.</p>
<p>Yeah, admissions decisions are an imperfect, and often frustrating process for many of us. I've worked in labs at Stanford and UCSF for the last 4 years, performing as a grad student researcher (including doing an M.S. thesis in one of those labs). I'm inches away from a first author pub in a great journal. I don't mean to downplay the hard work of those that got accepted, but we have undergrads that come into the lab for holiday or summer break for a few weeks, who barely know how to use a pipet. Although, I'm certain they have perfect grades and scores (they take two weeks off of working in the lab to prepare for GRE). They help a post-doc with a simple exp. that takes a couple hours a day, and get their name on a paper, then they get accepted everywhere. According to my boss, there were over 300 applicants for my job, which I got, based on my experience and references. Grad school doesn't work that way. They want grades and scores, not necessarily great grad students. </p>
<p>I'm hoping there is a program that recognizes this, then I'll take my four years of free education from UCSF and Stanford, and am sure to succeed elsewhere. If not, I think it's time for a career change. Afterall, Bill Gates didn't even finish undergrad; look at what a loser he turned out to be. ;-)</p>
<p>I understand that it is frustrating that you haven't gotten in everywhere that you would like to, however, you have interviews at some of the top schools in the country (Penn, UWash, Wash U). You are not anywhere close to being in a bad place. There are tons of international students who would love to be in the same position that you are in. Don't be too pessimistic! and hang in there you might still hear from some of these places.</p>
<p>1bionerd, I know exactly what you're talking about. We have lazy undergrads who spend most of their time checking facebook and only do stuff when they're asked to.</p>
<p>autocell,
I agree with tvgrad.. Penn, WashU and UW are some of the best schools, and they are better than top notch schools in some aspects. Also, I think you are frustrated by the rejection of UCSF. You should understand that UCs take only one or two international students which means you have to be better than students who have already finished their Master's degree, have several publications, and more importantly one of the best students from their country.</p>
<p>Another thing is that many schools evalaute the international students only after they are finished with domestic student so I do not see any reason for you to be hopeless with Harvard and some other programs. </p>
<p>This whole application process is very stressful - and it's silly, because there are professors at Indiana University (an excellent school that just doesn't make it into the NRC top 10) who are easily as good as the professors at Harvard, and who might be more attentive, etc. The school's ranking does not really indicate the learning experience you will have at that school. </p>
<p>And I definitely agree that the admissions process is not ideal either - I have heard horror stories of putting GPA\GRE\Number of publications into a formula and spitting out a ranking of the applications, and then looking only at the top ones critically, rather than giving all applications the same consideration.</p>
<p>I am pretty sure that I am going to decline the interview with Harvard - both of their weekends conflict with schools I have already confirmed my attendance at. All my friends (and my mom, oh my MOM!) are disappointed because they think that Harvard would be a great opportunity for me - but I am terrified that I would get there and be the bottom of the barrel, and eventually get kicked out with my masters.</p>
<p>Mollie - why did you choose Harvard?</p>
<p>Or better phrased - what are some reasons to NOT want to go to Harvard? Is it more competitive than other graduate schools? Do the PIs tend to be more drill sergeant-y? Is there a general sense of "we're the top" among either the students or faculty? Do people frequently leave early, due to failing quals or becoming discouraged, what have you? Are the other graduate students laid back, or is it a school of workaholics?</p>
<p>lol. i'm hoping we don't get more stupid as things go.
What else would you like to think about?
I go to an ivy school and know tons of kids who start washing dishes in the lab some time their sophomore year, and don't get anything done by the end of their senior year. Some of those people do get in to PhD or MD/PhD... depending on their attitude toward things and how their letters say. I worked my ass off in the lab like >20 hr a week and got stuff done. There is no such a thing as spending a few hours in the lab and get a co-authorship unless you are born in heaven. and if someone really did just that and got lucky (with the number game etc) to the interview part, he/she is not likely to get through the interview process.</p>
<p>It's just like cloning. In the end you only need one clone to move on. In the end you will end up going to only one school. Will your postdoc boss ever care which other school you get in or what your GRE was after your PhD? I know it's really frustrating hearing these decisions (explain my checking emails every 15 minutes and sleepless nights and nightmares). Comparing yourself with other people isn't gonna help.</p>
<p>and i would consider it stupid to decide to deny a school (or cry over its rejection) just because of some stereotype... you never know where the best boss of your life really is.</p>
<p>I am a domestic applicant who is very appreciative of the opportunities that have been offered to me and do not need consoling, but thanks. My commitment to working smart and hard will continue to provide a successful career for me.</p>
<p>burffkitten: if you get a Harvard interview and have those questions, attend an interview weekend. Not everyone get that chance. </p>
<p>Harvard has tons of really good PIs and publications. Chances are, if you go to Harvard, somebody will know your boss and it will be tons easier to get a postdoc/tenure track job. Why would you apply there in the beginning if you don't even want to go?</p>
<p>I agree with autocell. hope things end up happy for everyone.</p>
<p>I recently got rejected at MIT (international applicant), which was my top school. Before i got the rejection letter, i treated it as the only option and others as safety schools.
I think i've gotten over the MIT thing. I don't loose sleep or check e-mails like i used to.
I know i've got the brain and motivation to be successful anywhere else i go to. However, I must admit that i am even more motivated to prove the people who rejected me Wrong.
Cheer up people!!!</p>