Biology/Genetics Major Looking for Feedback on Schools

Applying to College
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My daughter is a current senior in HS in NJ. She is interested in pursuing a major in biology with perhaps a concentration in genetics.

Stats:
5.07 Weighted GPA (3.9 Unweighted)
Competitive public school magnate program focused on law/public service
1480 SAT (760 Math, 720 English)
All Honors and AP classes
8 APs (5 passed, 3 taking senior year)
3 sport varsity athlete (Basketball, Volleyball, Track)
National Honor Society, Math and Science Honor Society
Science League, Math League
Volunteers for her temple and local youth basketball organization

She was initially interested in a smaller or mid-sized school but upon doing some research decided to pursue larger public universities that have more substantial programs and resources for biology majors (and more choices in case she decided to pivot to another major). She would like to shrink her universe somewhat (and get exposure to smaller classes and intellectually ambitious students) via acceptance to a large university’s Honors College. At this point, she prefers to go out of state, but that may change as we do our college visits over the next few months. She has an older sibling at Indiana, and a younger sibling not yet in HS (so COA is an important consideration).

Also seeking substantial merit-based scholarships that would minimize her COA, particularly as she is likely to pursue graduate studies. Some schools have joint BS/MS programs that she may be able to complete in 4-5 years, including credit given for her AP exams.

She applied to the following schools (15 total…14 public universities, 1 private LAC):

Closer to home (NJ):

Rutgers ($15-20k tuition, maybe merit aid for honors college)
TCNJ (same as Rutgers, maybe some merit aid)
Delaware ($38k tuition, $17K+ of merit aid likely, honors college)
Binghamton ($30K tuition, $10-15K merit aid likely, honors college)
Lafayette ($60K tuition, $30K+ merit aid possible?)
UMass ($38k tuition, $10-20K merit aid likely, honors college)

Midwest:
Purdue ($31K tuition, frozen tuition, $10-16K merit aid likely)
Indiana ($38K, $12K merit aid likely, honors college)
Wisconsin ($38K tuition, little merit aid likely)
Miami of Ohio ($38K tuition, frozen tuition, $15K-full tuition merit aid, honors college)

Southeast:
University of Georgia ($32K tuition, $10K+ merit aid possible, honors college)
Clemson ($38K tuition, $15K+ merit aid likely, honors college)
FSU ($20K tuition, OOS waiver brings tuition to $6,500, honors college)
Alabama ($31K tuition, automatic $28K merit aid, honors college)
University of South Carolina ($35K tuition, OOS waiver plus $4K merit aid likely…so tuition after merit aid at/under $10K, honors college)

Wisconsin, UGA, Clemson, Rutgers, and Purdue have genetics majors, but other schools have biology programs that include quite a few genetics classes. Most of her advanced genetics classes will be in graduate school anyway, so a good biology program is most important.

Some schools have defined BS/MS programs…FSU, Alabama, Georgia

She is a bit of an introverted kid that needs to break out of her shell, so not really looking to pledge a sorority at this time. But having a friendly, inclusive environment (for a kid from NJ) is important.

She just applied to all of the schools and has already received acceptances from IU and Alabama.

I would love to get feedback from parents/students that have considered or are attending any of these schools. If you had to narrow down the list to 5 faves, which would they be? Looking for best education, student experience, payback on COA, job placement prospects. I know there is a big difference in COA for Alabama, FSU and South Carolina in particular vs. likely full pay Wisconsin and likely higher cost Lafayette. Is it worth it to pay more because the return is there in the long run and/or the college experience is substantially different? She will likely (hopefully?) come back to NJ/Northeast for a job.

She is leaning to Midwest schools because we have family in the area (and Midwest kids are generally nice and down to earth?) or schools within our driving distance from NJ (in case she gets homesick). But some of the Southern schools appear to be of great value with highly regarded honors colleges.

Would love feedback! Thank you!

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She may want to check on the prominence of sororities and fraternities in each school’s social life. I.e. would there be sufficient social life for students who do not join them?

What is her definition of “friendly, inclusive”? Note that biology majors and courses attract lots of pre-meds, which can result in a competitive environment.

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She doesn’t mind a bit of the ol’ academically competitive spirit, but doesn’t want a cutthroat environment.

Socially…she is not at all preppy or stuck up, and certainly not a cheerleader/party type. She wants to have enough opportunities to join a community that is friendly and accepting, not clique-y.

Larger schools tend to have enough diversity for almost any student to find his/her niche/people. Student organizations, honors college, living-learning communities, etc.

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The FSU OOS waiver is based on GPA and test scores. There also seems to be another cutoff that’s not well advertised. No C’s or lower on your transcript. At least that’s what I saw with several FB conversations from disappointed students and parents.

S21 is there and happy. Every time we visit the kids seem very happy there. There seems to be a fair amount of Jewish students and a Hillel on campus.

Lots of things to do. Greek seems to be big but not dominating.

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What are her career goals? Does she know for sure that she wants to attend graduate school, or is that a maybe?

All of these schools will have fine biology programs and will offer several genetics courses. I would caution against doing a major in genetics unless her plans after graduation fall into some niche categories.

What are the BS/MS programs? I advise against doing an MS in biology with a few narrow exceptions.

A little more info on her goals and plans will help with more specific advice, but if she’s looking for a good biology education, she’ll get it at any of these places. Congrats on the acceptances!

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Thank you for your input.

She should have a really good shot for an OOS waiver. She has almost all As (only two Bs in her entire time in HS, one of them in AP Bio where she wound up getting a 5 on the AP exam).

FSU appears to be a tremendous value with low COA, honors college, BS/MS programs, good student life.

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My D had a 4.0 UW and slightly higher test scores, 8 APs and a bunch of DE too and got $0 in merit from Lehigh or Purdue (but engineering major).

Purdue’s honors college has gotten much more competitive but your D has a shot. (Hopefully she already has her application submitted since the deadline is 11/1) but I don’t think she’ll see any merit money. The university is much more focused on freezing tuition than giving money to OOS applicants.

If Purdue is affordable (COA is around $40K/year for OOS) I’m a big fan. My D has had an amazing experience that far exceeded our expectations. Am happy to answer any Purdue specific questions if you have any.

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I don’t usually stump for my own alma mater, as anything positive I say could be seen as biased. But in this case, if you can swing it, UW-Madison may be the best option – academically – for Genetics. UW is also outstanding in related sciences, as some of the other schools are.

Hard to find an undergrad ranking for Genetics, so here’s a grad ranking:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/genetics-rankings?_sort=rank-asc

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She thinks she wants to be a genetics counselor or researcher. She enjoys the problem solving and STEM oriented research subjects at school (biology, chemistry, anatomy, psychology) and does well with statistics (got a 5 on the AP Stats exam).

But really…she doesn’t know yet. She will need to take some college level courses and speak with academic/career advisers. She will need to get a few internships. One of the reasons larger public universities present some options in case she decided to pursue an alternate career path.

FSU has a Pathways program…5 year BS/MS in Biology/Microbiology. Double Dawgs at Georgia is similar. Alabama and others have a BS/MS for pre-med (not sure if she would consider going in that direction). Some have a BS/MBA in STEM fields (Alabama). Just an attractive option, I think. With AP credits she would be able to get a Master’s Degree in 4 years.

Thank you for your input!

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Really appreciate your input.

She applied to Wisconsin for mainly that reason…great program in biological sciences including a leading genetics program. It’s likely the most expensive of the Public Universities she applied to after factoring in the low likelihood of merit aid.

Big question…is it worth the extra $30K per year (multiplied by 5-6 years) in tuition vs. FSU, Alabama, South Carolina, etc?

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Really appreciate your input!

She is excited about Purdue given the STEM vibe. It has a strong genetics program as well.

I have heard that Purdue does give $10-16K to OOS students with high stats (not going for the more competitive CS, Engineering or Flight programs). We will have to see.

In any case, I may definitely follow up with you regarding your D’s experience there. Thanks again!

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I can’t answer that. There might be some things you could do to establish value at these schools:

  • Comb through the course offerings to see which school offers the best mix of courses she’d be interested in. Who offers the best depth and breadth in that major?

  • Reach out to find out how easy it would be to do research with profs, if that is something she’d be interested in doing. *Edited to add: UW has the third-largest research budget of any school in the US, behind only Johns Hopkins and Michigan. We’re among the schools foremost on the tip of the advancement spear.

When a school is losing on price, the only way (IMO) it stays in the race is if it offers advantages in curriculum, research opportunities, and the ubiquitous “fit” variables like social vibe, housing, location, etc.

I can say, UW has a plethora of quality programs/majors – so if she changed her mind, she probably would be switching to another highly regarded major. Academically, UW is very strong pretty much across the board.

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If she gets the OOS waiver and admission to the Honors program it will be a tough offer to turn down. My son didn’t and he’s very happy.

The only drawback are the flights. Not the worst but nothing direct and sometimes expensive although if you have the OOS waiver it’s a no brainer.

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That’s helpful to know. If she wants to be a genetic counselor, she will need a special Master’s degree (usually a 2-year program). If she wants to be a researcher she needs a PhD. Good undergraduate degrees for either of those paths include a generic Biology degree, Biochem, or Cell/Molecular Biology.

She could major in genetics but that will put a constraint on her options should she decide to go in a non-genetics direction after graduation. It also doesn’t allow her as much flexibility to tailor her courses because it’s just a bio degree with extra requirements stacked on top.

I peeked at the degree requirements for the genetics degrees at some of the places and they are hardly different from a general biology degree. She could do essentially the same courses by choosing her bio electives. In fact, at Purdue, they offer all sorts of flavors of bio degrees (e.g., genetics, neuro, micro, etc.) but the courses are all from the core science departments anyway. They are really just general biology degrees, but all the electives are dictated. So the “title” of the major is the only real difference. However, the title of the degree may matter to an employer, and she may be constrained by a degree in “genetics” even if it’s the same exact courses as a degree in “biology”. Doing a concentration is great, and I wish schools would stick to those instead of doing a zillion specialized majors, because it serves the students better. Not criticizing Purdue here, they are rock-solid and it’s quite common for schools to do this these days.

If she wants to become a genetic counselor, one great path is to major in biology. Then as her post-grad plans firm up, she can take more courses in genetics, psych, stats, and anatomy (those are not all core bio degree requirements). If she leans more in the direction of research, she can take more courses in genetics, neuro, chem, and molecular bio (for biomedical research), or genetics, chem, botany, and agriculture (for ag research).

I am a bio prof and I don’t recommend a BS/MS for your daughter. It will be extra money and time for a degree that will essentially do nothing for her. Her time is better spend in a different grad program or in a job. Many of these newer bio MS degrees are mostly cash grabs by the universities. They are okay for someone who needs a short MS program to boost lackluster academics to get into med school.

Some schools (like Indiana, SC, Wisconsin, Rutgers, Alabama, maybe others) offer graduate programs in genetic counseling. That would be a nice bonus to have that on campus if she’s interested in that career. You can check at https://www.gceducation.org

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I know many UW grads in various Biology sub-fields, and all loved their time in Madison. That said, I personally wouldn’t pay OOS tuition for it.

I also wouldn’t worry about having a specific Genetics major. I had a plain Biology BA, and got accepted to a T10 Genetics graduate program.

I also would never pay for a Masters degree in a science. I would either get a masters for free by using AP credits to finish a Bach+Masters in 4 years, or would just go to a fully funded Genetics grad program (essentially all Genetics PhD programs have fully funded tuition plus stipend, and you can leave early with your MS if you decide against finishing.) Now a Masters in Genetic counseling is different, and is a very different job altogether than being a researcher…

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Really appreciate your input! Coming from a biology professor…carries extra weight. Thank you.

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Really appreciate your input! Love to get advice from those with experience. Thank you!

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I’d also add not to get hung up on rankings for bio or genetics programs when making this decision. Most people don’t know that Utah is an absolute genetics powerhouse. You’re not going to find that by typing in “top genetics programs” into google. So factor #1 is that the rankings are flawed. Factor #2 is that it really doesn’t matter at the undergrad level, and sometimes even at the grad level. The strength of your PhD advisor carries way more weight than any institutional prestige. All these schools are great so don’t give another thought to individual rankings. Instead look to see if the opportunities she wants are available.

All these schools will provide your daughter with a fine education and preparation for employment or grad school. It’s much more about fit and opportunities for her to get involved.

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Have to agree here – there gets to be a point where turning a specialization within a more general major into its own major is unlikely to bring more benefits than detriments. Numerous specialized biology majors (versus one or a few general biology majors within which students can choose subarea concentrations) seem to be an example of this, though there are other examples outside of biology.

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Others far more knowledgeable than I have already given great advice about the majors and the worthiness of a solo Master’s in bio. In case you are still intrigued by the combo BS/MS options, I’d thought I’d add something.

Finishing up her education in the region where she wants to work will likely make it easier for her to find a job in that location, as many recruiters tend to recruit locally/regionally. That doesn’t mean it would be impossible for her to go to Alabama and come back to New Jersey and get a job, but it would make it harder. Now, if she goes to grad school, it is very easy to do undergrad in Alabama and then go to Rutgers for a Master’s in Genetic Counseling and get the benefits of a lower-cost undergrad with the northeastern recruiting strengths of a place like Rutgers. But, if you’re thinking of the B.S./M.S. route, and hoping she comes back to the northeast, I wouldn’t advise her doing that path outside of the northeast. (Of course, I agree with the others that it may not be the best path anyway, but this is an additional reason why.)

I would look to see what options each college has for acclimating first-years on campus. IU, for instance, has the Intensive Freshman Seminars (IFS) program where students come to campus early and have a choice among 3-credit classes and live in a dorm with their classmates. They get to form a strong relationship with a professor (the classes are capped at around 20 students, I believe), the classes expose them to some of the university’s resources (writing center, library resources, etc), and there are lots of social activities to build relationships among the students. And they get to do all of this before tens of thousands more students arrive, so they feel as though they have a handle on college life by the time the fall semester starts.

For an introverted student, a program like this is fabulous for helping to establish a successful transition to college. I know about IFS and other universities may have their own versions. But learning about each college’s process for how they get students well-established at a college would be a big deciding factor for me, especially if I thought it might be a difficult transition for my kid. It doesn’t how great the university is if your child is lonely and doesn’t feel as though she can make any friends.

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