Block Scheduling

Parents Forum
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<p>Delurking to seek advice from more experienced parents. I found my way here looking for advice for SAT takers as my 8th grader will be taking them on 1/22. This is a fascinating site filled with such practical information and advice. Our local public high school has block scheduling and I would love to hear from parents or students as to the advantages and disadvantages we may expect. </p>

<p>The school runs on a 4-4 system. I'm very concerned about the sequence of courses my daughter should take so that she doesn't run into trouble with SAT I and IIs and AP tests (taking an AP course too early, or being overwhelmed taking four APs at once?). I know it's early but I'd love to get advice from others who have had experience with block scheduling. We meet with her guidance counselor next week to pick her courses.</p>

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<p>The good thing about block schedule is that there is homework in only 4 subjects each day, and kids have more flexibility in managing their HW.</p>

<p>The best time to take SAT IIs is right after finishing a course in that subject (unless she is planning to take AP class in that subject). Math IIc requires Algebra II. It is best to finish all SAT testing by the end of junior year, and leave the fall of senior year for college apps. If she is a strong student, taking 4 APs should be manageable.</p>

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<p>My son LOVED block scheduling. It allowed much more flexibility in scheduling HW assignmrnts and because the sections were twice the normal duration, there was no completion slippage.</p>

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<p>i have enough trouble paying attention for a 50 minute class, yet alone double that :) block scheduling would of been awful for me.</p>

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<p>block scheduling is good, because it gives you 2 days to do any homework. Ideally, if you attempt it the night it is assigned. My high school had 7 periods, alternating schedules between 1-3-5-7 and 2-4-5-6. 5th period was half as long, and split with lunch. The longer classes alow more to be accomplished in class, as you only have to "get everyone settled" once in the beginning. Also the time for tests is longer, like during my 5th period class jr year, our tests had to be split over 2 days, which was just a pain.</p>

<p>As nngmm said, take the SAT II tests in June (or May) of the year when the course was taken, because information will be forgotten over the summer. The SAT I I would recommend taking fall and spring jr year, and maybe fall senior year. I took it winter soph year, and winter + spring jr year. Sometimes I wish I would have taken it fall sr year, just to see if I would've gotten higher with the completion of my jr year, but my SAT wasn't what kept me out of the schools I didn't get in, so it really didn't matter.</p>

<p>As for AP courses, you probably won't need to worry about those for a couple years, as they are mostly taken jr/sr year. Hopefully by then you + child will have a good feel for how much they can handle, and also like nngmm said, if they are a good student, 4 APs is definitely manageable.</p>

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<p>My S's hs is adopting block scheduling next year, so my S won't be affected. There are benefits to block scheduling, including better opportunities for more class projects and discussion, less heavy stuff to carry to and from school, and a wider range of classes. I personally think that the best schedule would be an alternate block schedule such as soccerguy described. But our hs is adopting the full block schedule in which 4 classes are taken each semester.</p>

<p>Some issues to consider: continuity. Will your D have math only for one semester? How will the school ensure that students do not forget too much material if they do not pursue a certain subject for over half a year? How will language courses be affected (same issue of continuity). Will the math covered by the time your D is expected to take the PSAT be appropriate? Lots of people will tell you that PSAT is irrelevant to college application, and it's true, but it's not irrelevant to merit aid.
APs are also an issue. The block schedule allows students to take far more APs than the conventional year-long courses, but if students take an AP class in the fall term, they may forget quite a bit if no provisions are made for review closer to the time of the AP. At the same time, for students whose second semester begin in late January, there is not a whole lot of time to cover some AP subjects in the second semester.</p>

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<p>hmm... I don't like that 4 classes per semester at all. That seems like a really bad idea, for the reasons you mentioned: foreign languages, and maths, most importantly, as well as there being no AP tests available after 1st semester to take.</p>

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<p>I love block scheduling. If you have a crap teacher/class you're over with it in half a year. It makes the school year much more interesting because in Jan. you get to start a whole new set of classes. Language was no problem. I took Sapnish 1 and then followed right up with Spanish2 in freshman year and then Spanish 3 and 4 in sophmore year. It was great because now I'm done and can persue classes I love. Also the projects seem to be better because the teachers let you devote some time in class and since you have less subjects they know you can spend time at night.</p>

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<p>makam:</p>

<p>Can you give a list of the classes you took, so we get an idea of what is possible with a 4x4 block schedule? Thanks.</p>

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<p>MomofFour, I hate to be the naysayer in this group, but my husband has taught high school science under the block that I think you are talking about - 4 classes in the fall nad 4 different classes in the spring? Same classes 5 days a week? He as a physics/chem teacher likes being able to have plenty of lab time, other teachers found it difficult to adapt English and math, for example to the long periods. You miss more than a couple of days for illness, you are in trouble.</p>

<p>APs, if the class is offered in the fall, the child has to figure out some way to go back over the material and review for the test in the spring, no accomodations are made. 4 APs taught at double speed may be scheduled, but not if you are active in band or chorus for example, those take up 1 of your hour and a half periods.</p>

<p>If your school is large enough, or has a large enough population of students taking higher level courses, some of these problems will be alleviated by scheduling. If AP or Honors Chemistry is taught twice a year, scheduling is much easier, for example.</p>

<p>At my husband's school, (1600 students) achievement is average at best, some years they can't find enough students to offer Physics (yes, there are places that are that bad). The school system went to blocks when the state began to implement a 4X4 curriculum, the idea being that with retakes and failures, students would need the extra 4 classes that would be available for electives like band, and to just ensure the same numbers GRADUATED. This system was not implemented for the college going kids, let alone encouraging more advanced classes.</p>

<p>Basically, the losers in the system are the bright, but not top of the class kids who cannot transfer out of their home school to a magnet high school. Many of the best and the brightest do move to another public school, others stagnate.</p>

<p>Other block systems, like the one described where 8 classes are taken concurrently over the whole year are much better.</p>

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<p>I'll have to echo cangel's sentiments. Our district is also 4x4. And yes, it is geared for students that fail and need to retake, each administrator and teacher points this out at open house. The district switched last year, so this is the second year. However, the science and math magnet high schools within the district did NOT switch, they remain on traditional calendar. All the more supporting the rationale of assisting the students requiring assistance to graduate, not matriculate to college.</p>

<p>We have 3 in high school again this year, and the AP classes are a nightmare. The class period time is not double or twice the time. It is 1.5 the amount of time of a traditional schedule. So compared to a traditional schedule students lose 25% of the teaching time. No provisions have been made for those that have AP classes in the fall, they don't see the test until May. And there is not enough time between the spring semester starting in Jan. to take the test in the beginning in May.</p>

<p>This past year 125 seniors took Ap English, 4 took the test. About the same for US History, and only 2 passed. And since there are only 4 periods a day, AP Bio and Chem are offered at the exact same time and only once period YEAR. Same with English, History or Foreign Language. Since we moved here from a school district last year that was on traditional schedule and the pass and attendance rate for AP far, far overshadowed the 4x4 block, my kids can't stand it. Most of the teachers, especially, science, math amd foreign language despise it. The AP calc teacher just doesn't want to teach it anymore. After speaking with the school's AP coordinator she said the rest of the high school's in the district are all in the same boat EXCEPT for the magnets. Their AP rate is continuing to rise. The stats for my kids high school year indicate less than 1% of the student body are taking AP classes, down from 9%. Similar drops are being experienced in all of the 16 other high schools within the district.</p>

<p>Graduation rates will rise and have risen just from last year, so the 4x4 is working for that.</p>

<p>And here, magnet attendance has nothing to do with the student's ability, it is on a random lottery system only. The local neighborhood is included in the attendance area, and the remaining slots are given out by a random coputer system, with no preference to whether you attended the year previously or currently have a sibling attending. Completely random. No preference is given if the student attended a magnet elementary or middle school, there is no guarantee of continuance in a magnet program from year to year.</p>

<p>Needless to say, very few in our area, maybe 1 or 2 attend the magnet schools. And the other road block is one year of no athletic participation if you are not attending your home school. So in theory, if you are bounced back and forth from the magnet or another boundary exception school not where you are zoned for school, no school sports any year.</p>

<p>I am sure after years of tweaking the system the district will solve many of these problems, I just don't see them doing it while my kiddos are still there. Maybe for my nephew, he is in first grade.</p>

<p>Ugh, I can't stand 4x4 block.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>As I said, my S will not be affected by the 4x4 block schedule so I have not raised publicly the concerns that cangel and katwkittens brought up and which I share. I was told by one dean, though, that there will be review for fall APs. How the reviews will fit into the spring schedule is unclear to me.
Another issue is teacher training. Fortunately, it seems there's been a lot of teacher training in anticipation of the switch--this does not always happen when there's a major change in policy. Not every teacher is sold on the system and some are expected to resign as a result.</p>

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<p>Our hs does not have block scheduling. However, my sister lives in a different district in our county with block scheduling and has three kids about the same age as my two. At their school, AP classes are given for the first THREE marking periods (3/4 of the year) with block scheduling, while other courses are given for 2 marking periods each. This brings them close to the time of the AP test. The students are taking the equivalent of 1 1/2 years of study for their APs. Then the kids have to take a small elective (equivalent to a half year course in traditional scheduling) or a study hall for the fourth marking period. So, as I understand it, they end up taking less APs, rather than more, and have a more limited choice of scheduling. This school district is rather highly rated, so I assume it must work for them, but it doesn't make a lot of sense or seem to desirable to me.</p>

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<p>It sounds like the 4X4 block schedule raises lots of issues, many of them negative. In our area, many districts have adopted block schedules but they vary day by day so that the kids still take all core courses year round. Seems like these districts and students are pleased with the results of a non-traditional block schedule (NOT the
4X4 you all are discussing). Any comments?</p>

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<p>Our high school is ditching the 4 x4. It is costing the district way too much money. We also have trouble with students not being enrolled in a Math or English the semester they are to take the state tests for graduation. (This also depresses the PSAT scores) My sons have not had one teacher that used the entire block effieciently. Many teachers let the kids do their homework the second 45 mins. Of course this is different at every school.</p>

<p>From the educational perspective, we found that taking an AP class that ends in December, and then trying to review for it and take the exam in May was good for about a one point decrease in the score. The only fives on our AP US History were from the kids that took a US Hist/Eng III A/B block all year. </p>

<p>Try to schedule as many of your APs in the spring. I also suggest taking the AB/BC Calc strand in one year, then take the AP test and the SAT II in May. Many students found that taking two languages back to back also helped, ie Span 3 and Span 4, then take the AP exam in May.</p>

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<p>"Try to schedule as many of your APs in the spring. I also suggest taking the AB/BC Calc strand in one year, then take the AP test and the SAT II in May. Many students found that taking two languages back to back also helped, ie Span 3 and Span 4, then take the AP exam in May."</p>

<p>This is what my DS#2 (a junior) did this year, AP Calc AB, then BC and Spanish IV and the AP Spanish V. But he had AP Euro and AP English in the fall. And now he has in addition to the calc and spanish, AP Stats and AP Chem. He said he doesn't know how he will review for his fall APs.</p>

<p>Yuck, yuck.</p>

<p>I tell myself 1and a half more years of this and then we are done. Youngest son (DS#3) is in non-honors courses but wil graduate with many extra units. They need 24 to graduate and with the 4x4 block they have 32 opportunities not counting summer school or anything done concurrrently. DS#2 is going to graduate with 40+ units. They don't allow early release for seniors. </p>

<p>Yuck, yuck.</p>

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<p>I hear you, kat! We left this district, in part because of the 4 x 4. Next year they will move to a potpourri of accelerated, a/b, and 45 min classes, and eventually off the 4 x 4 altogether. I'm glad we won't be living that nightmare! Some students have had limited success with buying the AP study guides and doing a self-study at home.</p>

<p>3boys: You are referring to the A/B block. My son took his History and English on the A/B last year. This year they canceled it because students thought it "too hard" to keep up with. The best AP scores came from that class, however. My son found it easier because you didn't need to rehash material that you laid to rest first semester. I could swing with an A/B block. I don't like the accelerated, particularly if you have part of a sequential class in the fall, and the next part not in the spring, but the following spring.</p>

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<p>The school superintendent, and some board members, community leaders,etc just came back from visiting a very successful school district in NC, one of the statements quoted in the paper was that they needed to increase the numbers of AP classes available, and the numbers of students taking AP courses. I hope they hear the downsides of blocks. The availability of AP classes was curtailed by a 20 year desegregation case that was just settled about 2 years ago, the system is just now recovering - new building funds were tied up for 20 years as well, they are finishing up an ambitious building program, and beginning on instruction.</p>

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<p>We did not move here for the 4x4 schedule or even the high schools themselves, but rather for the colleges and universities. ( have 5 kiddos, 3 in high school now, 2 in college). We left CA and their system for a comparable one at just a reduced cost, and a reduced cost of living. Our location is unfortunate due to the specific high school rather than a magnet but we are close to the 4 major universities, all within 30-40 minutes driving distance.</p>

<p>Oldest DD is pre-vet, at the school with a vet school, so that has allowed innumerable opprotunities for study and research. DS#2 had a great summer internship at Duke's Cancer Center this summer and DD#2 practices her 2 sports in the same location with two of the top D1 coaches at the third university. And so far our biggest cost is gas from driving from locale/university to another! And it is cheaper than CA gas.</p>

<p>So if my only complaint is that lousy 4x4 block I don't complain too loudly or at school. The school knows the kids are unhappy (at least the AP ones) along with their respective teachers and have been trying at the school level vs. district level to help with the situation. School had never taught AP Spanish or AP Stats or AP Calc BC before but is really trying to stretch.</p>

<p>Like I said, the 4x4 is yuck, but all the extras we, as a family, have gotten from moving here have made up for it and then some. That and the sweet tea!</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>We've experienced both schedules (traditional and 4x4). However, my daughter only had one year of the 4x4, before transferring to another school (for reasons other than the schedule). She liked it. She preferred the longer classes, fewer exams at one time, and the ability to be done with a class she did not like in only half the year. She prefers the Humanities and the Arts. The longer classes seemed great for these classes.</p>

<p>There were also disadvantages. I found math to be a particular problem in 4x4 schedules. Math is similar to a language in that many students do better if they are given small amounts of new concepts at a time, then take the ideas home and practice (homework). In a 4x4 schedule, much more information must be presented at once, with less time to absorb or practice the concepts. Many students often went for over a year with no math courses at all. (Algebra in the fall, Geometry in the Spring of the following year). Even though these are "different" subjects, many of the concepts are continued, and unfortunately forgotten with such a long breaks. I also believe math helps sharpen your mind for critical thinking in other subjects as well, and like any exercise should be done on a continual basis to be most effective.</p>

<p>The school solved the language "problem" by guaranteeing that all language courses would be continuous. This did have a benefit that a student who loved languages could double up, and take two separate languages during their high school years.</p>

<p>The school explained that the 4x4 schedule offered more opportunities, but that was not true. Like Mother of 2 mentioned, they corrected the AP problem by having AP classes last 3 of the 4 blocks, to roughly coincide with May AP exam dates. All their honor science courses were also 3 of 4 blocks because they did not feel they could cover the material in only 2. Once that was factored in, it limited additional class slots for the students taking more advanced courses. </p>

<p>I also believed that 90 min. classes were long for some subjects. The good teachers varied their teaching styles to include some lecture, some discussion, some work time, etc. Other teachers seemed to just provide "filler" (movies, homework time, etc.). It was great for art classes!</p>

<p>Many local private schools have adopted the A/B block schedule. This seems a good compromise in that courses are still taught all year long, but allow for extended labs, studios, discussions, etc. Missing several days due to illness is not as catastrophic. Math classes are also longer, but a student also has 2 days to absorb the material (or do homework).</p>