Blue Collar and Proud of It!

Parent Cafe
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<p>It’s not a strawman argument. I’m saying I wish there weren’t gaps in the quality of education between the states and the curriculum was more standardized, you’re saying you value diversity more. Well, our current system has big gaps in quality of education and our standardized tests are a joke - but hey, at least it’s diverse…</p>

<p>It’s no surprise American high school students perform poorly compared to our peers abroad. We complain about standardized tests, but we wouldn’t need them if students actually did well. You keep dismissing funding and harping about the virtues of stay at home parents, but the reality is, more parents are working these days. The state can’t control what parents do at home, they can only control what kids learn in the classroom. Do you think it’s a coincidence the poorest states have the poorest quality of education? Funding makes a huge difference. </p>

<p>Don’t worry, it seems like the status quo won’t be changing anytime soon. The American public education system will continue to suck. The rich kids will continue to grow up with every advantage while poor students get stuck in crappy underfunded schools. The standardized tests will continue to be dumbed down so everyone can pass. In some areas they’ll decide it’s important for kids to learn geography, in other areas they’ll figure, hey, why bother. While our peers abroad excel in science, Americans still debate whether or not it’s ok for us to talk about evolution in school…but hey, at least the system is diverse.</p>

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<p>“It’s not a strawman argument. I’m saying I wish there weren’t gaps in the quality of education between the states and the curriculum was more standardized, you’re saying you value diversity more. Well, our current system has big gaps in quality of education and our standardized tests are a joke - but hey, at least it’s diverse…”</p>

<p>A strawman is where you put words in the other person’s mouth and then knock down those words. If you claim that I said something, please quote my exact words.</p>

<p>“It’s no surprise American high school students perform poorly compared to our peers abroad. We complain about standardized tests, but we wouldn’t need them if students actually did well.”</p>

<p>There are schools in the US that are world class and there there are schools that aren’t. The goal of NCLB was to bring up the bottom. Instead we’re democratizing mediocrity. What I’d like to see are better parents and better parenting. We have a lot of social evils resulting in poor parenting skills. It is very, very hard to compensate for poor parenting skills unless you take their kids and raise them and educate them in a boarding environment.</p>

<p>“You keep dismissing funding and harping about the virtues of stay at home parents, but the reality is, more parents are working these days.”</p>

<p>Why are more parents working these days?</p>

<p>“The state can’t control what parents do at home,”</p>

<p>Ultimately it can but I hope that we don’t get there. The state does control what parents can and cannot do at home to a greater extant than what we had 30 years ago.</p>

<p>“they can only control what kids learn in the classroom.”</p>

<p>They can’t even do that. You don’t control what someone else learns. You can present and engage but if someone doesn’t want to learn, you can’t make them learn.</p>

<p>“Do you think it’s a coincidence the poorest states have the poorest quality of education? Funding makes a huge difference.”</p>

<p>California spends around 30% of its budget on K12. How is it doing? Take a look at Singapore - a city-state that does a lot educationally with little in education dollars. I have visited schools in Singapore and they run very, very lean. Parents there are part of the solution. Singapore is a country with no natural resources that was a part of a third-world nation many years ago. Going from zero to prosperity without even their own freshwater source has been quite a feat.</p>

<p>“Don’t worry, it seems like the status quo won’t be changing anytime soon. The American public education system will continue to suck. The rich kids will continue to grow up with every advantage while poor students get stuck in crappy underfunded schools.”</p>

<p>Seems that even some of the rich kids are getting fed up with their schools:</p>

<p>[More</a> higher-income families are home schooling their children - USATODAY.com](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2009-05-28-homeschooling-report_N.htm]More”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2009-05-28-homeschooling-report_N.htm)</p>

<p>"While our peers abroad excel in science, Americans still debate whether or not it’s ok for us to talk about evolution in school…but hey, at least the system is diverse. "</p>

<p>A strawman again. That diversity is playing out in the homeschooling community and it seems to be doing well.</p>

23

<p>The Finnish schools may not officially start until age 7, but they have preschool for everyone- that effectively starts schooling earlier, even if it’s not the 3 R’s. A uniform society makes a huge difference- there are states I don’t want to move to because the locals allow religions to set the tone. The Finns also do severe tracking- options closed in HS. I wonder if testing results would be the same if all students, even those tracked into trades, took all tests. I wonder how many underperforming sons of doctors get tracked into the trades? Many “apples and oranges” issues. It would be so nice to achieve a utopian society, but impossible. I like the fact that the college bound get exposed to the whole range of society and abilities, if only in gym class. I like that public schools allow for diversity of opinions- something homeschoolers avoid (their kids may actually disagree with their parents’ philosophies- heaven forbid if they are contaminated by contradictory ideas before they are thoroughly brainwashed). Those that opt out of their “poor” schools need to become activists and make their tax dollars work for better schools. Those that need to confine their kids to their ideologies don’t have good ones if they can’t hold up to different ideas. Yes, I am thoroughly against homeschooling, except for the extremely gifted who don’t fit in with any peer group available locally.</p>

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<p>"I like that public schools allow for diversity of opinions- something homeschoolers avoid’</p>

<p>Got some evidence for that?</p>

<p>“Yes, I am thoroughly against homeschooling, except for the extremely gifted who don’t fit in with any peer group available locally.”</p>

<p>Looks like someone that doesn’t understand homeschooling because of prejudice or lack of research.</p>

25

<p>Some of the best blue collar workers I know are college graduates. It is not an either/or situation. </p>

<p>However, in certain circles kids are being rushed off to college without regard to whether it is the right time for them to go. That is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.</p>

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<p>It is not just Finnish system that starts kids at 7. There is no need to start them early, just let them kids play. They do not need to know how to read before 7 anyway, unless they want. The US elementary mostly waste of time, doing busy work filling sheets. Parents do not have to teach their kids either, unless they want to. In american system, they must, though, otherwise kids will miss a lot, particularly in math and sciences. We always answere all our D’s questions, even if it involved reading her textbooks and learning material.</p>

27

<p>Agree with an above poster–it’s great to be a carpenter or plumber, but you eventually want to own the truck and have people working for YOU.</p>

<p>In our area there is a good system of 4 vocational schools. High schools.</p>

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<p>Glad that somebody said it before me. :p</p>

<p>When I was in high school, in my neck of the woods, kids were more likely to have the problem that their parents or other relatives thought that they were getting above themselves because they wanted to go to college (or to a four-year college instead of a community college, or to a college other than the local public). I was lucky that my family valued and encouraged education.</p>

<p>We did have a fine system of vocational schools (which still provided a basic college prep curriculum, so they didn’t slam any doors on people, but they also did vocational training), which I think more districts could stand to copy.</p>