First, it doesn’t follow that if rankings mean anything (I think they do matter to a degree) then it must mean that higher ranking means stronger academic offerings. Rankings are based on varied formulae, so don’t complicate your life with that kind of thinking.
As others have said, B and W are peer schools, though you’ll struggle to find a ranking with B ahead of W.
They’re both rural, but I prefer to Brunswick to Williamstown, and Brunswick is not too far from Portland. Williamstown is far from everything.
As for sports though, Williams is truly the 800 lbs gorilla in NESCAC overall. You don’t have to tell me, but if you’re talking soccer, then Williams is truly tippy top. One of the very best small college women’s soccer programs in the country, much less the conference. If the sport matters to you, and Williams is a juggernaut, then you have to factor that in. It’s your life. If you’re good enough to have been recruited by Williams for your sport, then it matters and it’s ok to take that into consideration.
Bowdoin is no slouch in a lot of sports, but Williams is tough to beat in many.
Good luck. Two nice choices. We liked Bowdoin, and it was a finalist for one of my kids.
Edit: I didn’t analyze every response but quickly picked up on a law school reference, which I assume stems from “which would be better for LS?”. It’s a common question. I have practiced law for over 20 years and did big law and big law recruiting and have participated actively in law school admissions at two institutions. Trust me there will be zero difference between these two schools for law school. Here, truly, your GPA and LSAT, along with your personal statement and diversity bona fides, will constitute 100% of the admission decision.
My impression of Williams is that it is more intense, and perhaps has more driven students. The tutorial system seems to foster that. I am not terribly familiar with Bowdoin, so can’t comment on it’s culture.
Maybe Law in the future. Now history and government, and maybe chemistry (yes, all over the place). I am inclined more to Bowdoin because I am not sure if I want to take a gap year.
Thank you. Although my sport is important to me and W is better than B in my sport, I want to weigh the decision more on academics. I might get injured…It’s the gap year that slightly bothers me (I don’t know why) that makes me want to put B on top of W.
Unless it’s, say, art history, where Williams is a titan, or econ, where Williams is among the tippy top LACs in the subject, or maybe math or physics, where W also stands out, I just don’t see a real academic reason for picking one over the other. They’re so close that I’m afraid you can’t meaningfully or sincerely make the choice on that basis. But you’re lucky in that you have other bases upon which to make a choice. I hear you about location, but as a parent of one kid who went to school truly in the boonies, lack of restaurant choices can catch up to you after a while. Portland is super foodie now and would be nice to have nearby. Williamstown doesn’t offer that advantage. That’s one thing. Then you have the athletic piece. I caution against using that as the make or break in situations where the schools are vastly different. I had a kid who had D1 options at schools that weren’t a fit vs. a seemingly endless number of D3 schools that were. But as among those schools, sure, it’s ok to consider the sports situation if it’s important to you. Then you have the gap year matter. With that, you have three legitimate bases at your disposal to use to make the choice. I don’t think you need to examine the academic side at all. Bowdoin is as good a LAC as Williams. Both have much to offer.
Regarding U.S. News rankings, note that, by overall score, Bowdoin (91) places equidistant between Williams (100) and Bates (82).
There may be a tendency on CC to characterize schools as peer institutions (or not) without objective support. Without expressing an opinion on these particular colleges, I think your inquiry here represents a valid one.
I am inclined more on history/government/politics with an eye for law in the future (too far out though). On sports, both pass the bar (W more than B), but I might get injured, so I try to make a decision somewhat excl. sports. Thanks for the advice.
And in so doing, you’re suggesting that the rankings offer that objective support, when in fact what they really offer is one formula approach over another.
If you don’t think Bowdoin and Williams are peer schools, I think it would help OP to tell him/her why you think what you think. OP is already well aware of the rankings.
And that’s all perfectly reasonable. I’m just saying it’s ok to use the sport in a truly “flip a coin” situation like the one you appear to be in here. But the prospect of injury and the sport becoming an immediate non-factor is a reality with which I am all too familiar. You’re smart to have that perspective.
I think Bowdoin is very strong in your topics of interest. Others may have more insight there.
One school is effectively telling you that it likes you, but with conditions. Isn’t that a little off-putting? Love the school that loves you back, man. The universe is speaking to you.
As a mom who worries about the “what ifs”, go for Bowdoin. Decision will be made, not delayed in attending, and you can start college life without hoping nothing happens during gap year that could impinge on starting W later.
And there’s a frequent poster on here , @homerdog, who has informed many of us just how great Bowdoin has been for her S academically and with networking, as well as the food, fwiw!)
Not at all — I’m stating that, to the extent U.S. News rankings will be used by the OP, overall score offers a more meaningful indicator than rank position. Further, there’s a reason my post was organized by paragraphs, in that the ideas in each paragraph were intended to be seen as self-contained. They were also completely unconnected to your prior post, @cquin85, which I had yet to read.
I got it. It’s the second self-contained idea in your post to which I referred. It’s the context of the thread that inspires me to ask the question.
OP is trying to discern between W & B on a purely academic basis even though there are other meaningful considerations involved, like a gap year with W. I guess my question would be, are we … myself and the other posters … wrong in proffering that advice to the OP? When you say, There may be a tendency on CC to characterize schools as peer institutions (or not) without objective support, there is, IMO, at least an implication that you think that advice is off the mark. And, to be clear, if you do think that advice is off the mark, you may have the better view. All I’m saying is, let’s hear it.
Whether it’s the actual rankings or score doesn’t seem to matter on this point in my view. The OP started with “but ranking,” and 80% of the following replies told her that the two schools are peers and thus that academics are a wash. That’s either good or bad advice.
In my response, I allowed for the fact that Williams is a clear leader in a handful of areas of study. For example, if the OP had dreams of being a museum curator or otherwise in that general area of concern, there’d be no choice: Williams or bust. But the OP doesn’t seemed destined for art history or math.
You’re getting good feedback here. I’ll just reinforce a few things…
These are both great schools and the difference in terms of academic quality is negligible. They are both among a handful of the best small LACs in the country. Really, it’s like trying to decide whether Bird, Magic, MJ, Lebron, or Giannis is the best player ever. One of those is going to be #5 but the difference in terms of talent isn’t meaningful.
So I’d approach this the opposite of the way you are. I’d say in the academic box they are for all practical purposes equal.
I’d ask where I fit better. That means both the school body in general, the lifestyle, culture, and also the team. There are probably a lot more meaningful differences in these areas than in the academics.
I don’t think a gap year is necessarily bad but I’d pay attention to the issues that some of the very smart and experienced posters here raise about how that interacts with the athletic recruiting piece.
The main topical academic differences I can see are:
Williams offers tutorials. You should decide whether you want access to that style of learning. Bowdoin also offers small classes, but to my knowledge, they do not offer tutorials. If you would be as comfortable in a class of 20 as you would be in a class of 2, then it doesn’t really matter to you. (and most of your classes at Williams would comprise the former, just as they would at Bowdoin)
Bowdoin offers a Government & Legal studies major, while Williams offers a Justice & Law concentration (probably code for “minor”). That may be a meaningful difference to you if you decide to choose such a major. I would spend a little time looking at available courses in each. At Williams, you would have to choose something else to major in though – Econ, Poli Sci, Philosophy, Psych, Global Studies, whatever.
Those are two pretty notable differences in academics.
In terms of quality of instruction, generally, I would expect them to be similar. Just, as noted above, different in a couple key areas.
At my last Williams visit, the AO said about 50% of students take a tutorial. She then went on to say the vast majority of those 50% don’t take a second tutorial.
Seems students aren’t all that into the tutorials. I’m sure there are a number of reasons, but I have heard from several students who say the tutorials are difficult and time consuming. There are no tutorials at Bowdoin.
Yeshiva University (#10) has an acceptance rate of 67%. A kid who got into Williams and Bowdoin will almost certainly definitely get into Yeshiva University. Moreover, you don’t need to be Jewish.
Williams has done a great job of packaging a program of small, weekly classes that basically revolve around two students taking turns leading the discussion. I’m guessing that the subjects are chosen by the professors and are closely tied to their own ongoing research. The students base the discussions on a bi-weekly paper they have to write to support their views. There are LACs where a tutorial is basically a form of independent study; the student comes up with an idea and finds a professor in whose wheelhouse the subject resides. They meet regularly, the prof oversees the progress of the student’s tangible work product but mostly it’s about the contact with the professor.
If something like availability of tutorials is a factor in deciding, I’d be sure to check how many athletes on your team typically pursue those opportunities.
I’m uneducated on recruiting but why would you be asked to take a gap year ? Is the team full but you can slide in the next year ? What if the coach is fired or if they are that good, what if he/she moves to another school. We see this in d1. New coach. You’re out. Same coach. Found someone better. You’re out.
So I don’t believe what you think is guaranteed is 100% Do you have this in writing that there is 100% certainty you are admitted and a team member.
Anyway you answered the question. You don’t want a gap year; your parents do. Guess what - they’re not going to school.
I assume you want to be successful in life and earn a good living. Are you prepared for one year less pay, one year less 401k match contribution to social security ?
Crazy story. My Uber driver today starts Vandy law next month. His wife Belmont law. Why he chose Vandy so they can be together. He’s killing time driving Uber til school starts.
He did americorps last year.
Know where he went ? Bama. 24. Married.
Going to Vandy from Bama. See, there’s still hope for my son
I know you think this doesn’t happen. But it does bcuz there are smart kids everywhere. Just not in the quantities there are at an elite LAC.
