Brain Gain - Use of Neuroenhancers Rising

[Pushin30]

<p>Please read my previous post slowly. I made it very clear that I am not MORALLY opposed to its use. I am opposed to the long range negative effects that are derived. FYI:
[Ritalin</a> Side Effects Lawsuit | Ritalin Attorney, Lawyer](<a href=“http://www.schmidtandclark.com/Ritalin/]Ritalin”>http://www.schmidtandclark.com/Ritalin/)
I have never heard of a Ginkgo Biloba class action lawsuit.
The popularity of Ritalin and the like is a result of big pharma marketing. There is little, if any money to be gained by marketing a natural, holistic product that you don’t need a prescription for and actually works on most, like Gingko.
FYI;
[AGE</a> OF AUTISM: From Risperidone to Ritalin: Lies. Lies. Lies. And Children Are in Danger.](<a href=“http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/03/from-risperidone-to-ritalin-lies-lies-lies.html]AGE”>http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/03/from-risperidone-to-ritalin-lies-lies-lies.html)
I have a problem with it because I don’t want my tax dollars to have to pay for your indolence, when you get older, as a direct result of using these smartly packaged and promoted death pills.
What happened to knuckling down and studying?</p>

[molly4190]

<p>Pushin30 - ok I see…I can understand someone being opposed to the physical negative side effects. Like I said, I don’t personally use either, but I’m not opposed to them and am open to using them in the future. These aren’t magic pills that eliminate the need to study, they just boost concentration. So far I’ve pulled 2 all nighters which made me exhausted; with Ritalin it would have been so much easier to concentrate and read 100 pages of dense Bio material in one night. Then again, not procrastinating all the time would solve that too…:p</p>

[Pushin30]

<p>LOL! I feel your pain…</p>

[myjennygirl91]

<p>I know it was pretty common in my school (competitive prep school) and i am completely against it. For one, you don’t know how it will affect you in the long term and it also supports a kind of culture where the means is justified by the end</p>

[ns9908]

<p>

Pheylethylamine (aka PEA) is another drug used to help you focus. It has the same effects as adderall, but it’s less intense with very few side effects.(almost none and no crash) This one is available to everyone and is pretty cheap. (its found in chocolate, but you can buy it as a supplement online.)</p>

<p>The only reason I’m mentioning PEA is because I really would rather people take something safer. Adderall has so many side effects that you have to ask yourself “Is it worth it?” And if you decide you’re going to do it (because you know no one can really stop you), then make it “worth it!”

</p>

<p>PEA was useless for me (and, may I add, for Dr. Shulgin as well), but if taken in large (read: mega) doses it becomes a euphoriant similar to nitrous oxide (just from reading testimonials). 2 grams ought to do it, but PEA isn’t the best legal stimulant out there either. And it tastes just like most other “classic” amphetamines (methyl-, MD-methyl-, etc.), so you’ll need a capping machine because the taste is intolerable. Otherwise L-Phenylalanine (though the D isomer is faaaaabulous) and a PDD inhibitor like EGCG could give you the same effects. It’s easy to wear out your DA reserves that way, so levodopa supplements or L-tyrosine, both with more PDDIs are also recommended. At least that’s what they give to Parkinson’s patients.</p>

<p>The majority of the arguments in this thread have already been adressed here: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-life/609294-adderall-question-5.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-life/609294-adderall-question-5.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Specifically I’d like to quote myself in response to this “curve” argument:</p>

<p>

Working harder for more adderall and working harder while on it harms nobody (because the kids who need it can get it if they try and the new curve that you set is justified by your effort), so theft is an improper comparison. As far as the ethics of the argument, I would say that there is nothing wrong with doing something to boost your performance as long as it harms nobody else. Nobody argues that reading a textbook designed for college students in high school to “temporarily boost your academic performance (not even 100% proven) [sic]” is unethical and the same should apply here because it’s not the use itself that matters–it’s the intention. It’s true that Adderall is not a panacea for all problems of mental concentration, but there are dozens of amphetamines on the market and there has never been a single human subject whose dopaminergic receptors did not respond to amphetamines by producing more dopamine.</p>

<p>Freshman: If you and I can find ADHD meds online, then so can those who have the medical condition for which they are prescribed. In the Marines they have a saying: “you can’t strengthen the weak by weakening the strong”. Depriving the strong of the potential for productivity is the same as weakening them through say, harsher grading standards. Your tragedy of the commons argument fails because there is no harm done to anyone else.</p>

<p>Your first sentence is completely inane–how can there be a loss of benefit if everyone starts benefiting? Would your health be affected if everyone started eating more vegetables? Only on a relative basis, but on an absolute basis, EVERYONE would be healthier and you wouldn’t be worse off because of it. The same applies here–especially with grading standards (the only relative instrument of measure) going down, those who have ADD currently will not have difficulty maintaining their grades (many of which are already “artificially” high because of their use of amphetamines). Everybody doing better than me doesn’t harm me, and it doesn’t make me feel worse because I know that I can’t be best at everything. Just like when others take steroids to boost their weight-lifting capabilities, I don’t feel like a failure when I can only lift a fraction of the weight they can. Instead I try harder and use steroids (hypothetically) to boost the product of my effort.</p>

<p>I know that the only comparison that I can make of my success is with my potential–the relative success of others is unimportant–all that matters is how hard I try.

</p>

<p>As I said in that thread, if you can’t find legal stimulants online, you’re just not trying hard enough. MDPV is fantastic at getting things accomplished, and at ~$50 per gram, who could refuse? Mephedrone is even cheaper but the higher dose and increased euphoria (allegedly) cancels this out.</p>

<p>Natural substances and foreign chemicals you say?
[Ask</a> Dr. Shulgin Online September 26, 2001](<a href=“http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/acacia.htm]Ask”>Ask Dr. Shulgin Online September 26, 2001)
Gingko is about as foreign of a molecule as you can get; at least the amphetamines are mostly metabolized into their epinephrine derivatives which the body can handle.</p>

<p>While it’s perfectly fine to be concerned with the long-term use of these substances, it’s wrong to shun them from everyone because of some alleged potential for abuse. Most students just take it to do well on exams and occasional use is not nearly as harmful as the hysteric public and pharmaceutical corporations would like to have you believe–especially if you follow through with the proper neuroprotection mechanisms and DA regeneration as described above.</p>

<p>What The New Yorker misses in this article is the big secret among those who have been using non-stimulating neuroenhancers for longer than ritalin was even around. I am of course talking about the racetams, which have a very safe pharmacological profile, are ridiculously cheap (my half kilo was only $30!) and have proven effects. Others among this non-stimulating category are 5-HTP, many of the ergolines, amino acid stacks, MAOIs-- the best of which is by far deprenyl, and dopaminergic cocktails of all varieties. Stimulants are great, but real “smart drugs” are very useful in the long run as well.</p>

[spideygirl]

<p>

Brain Gain - Use of Neuroenhancers Rising

</p>

<p>This title could imply that neuroenhancers are positively associated with “brain gain”, particularly by someone quickly passing by the thread.</p>

[galoisien]

<p>

natural, holistic product

</p>

<p><em>rolleyes</em></p>

<p>Hey, I’m Chinese too, I don’t object to gingko. But you might as well have the pure active ingredients – go for the purified drugs. </p>

<p>Also, I don’t see adderall as “cheating” ***. Is it cheating if I decided to use Wikipedia. Use research positions to study the material better? Use hypnotic methods? Use whatever? I’m affecting my own performance, not yours. Academia isn’t a competition, it’s not roids.</p>

[Klockan3]

<p>It is cheating to be a nerd without a life too.</p>

[leah377]

<p>

The reason Adderal is cheating is because it isn’t readily available to everyone, and other people’s abuse affects your grade! Grades are done on curves, and if other people are taking a drug that allows them an advantage that others are legally not allowed to have…well I don’t think that is fair. I wouldn’t be bothered by adderal if it was sold in a convenient store so that everyone could have it. Anyone can buy coffee so the using caffeine is fair, it is part of the rules.

</p>

<p>you really can’t find some adderall somewhere if you want it? i find that hard to believe.</p>

[Pushin30]

<p>What an idiot. Because you are Chinese you are an expert on Ginkgo Bilbao??? Oh my. Since I am a southerner, I guess I must know everything about magnolias?? Please. You ascertain, that you only hurt yourself using these drugs. You are INCORRECT! We all pay in the form of TAXES, when they raise the cost of insurance, because of dimwits like you, that did not take care of themselves.
Again, I have no moral issues with the use of a non toxic enhancer. I do have an issue with chemicals that are hazardous to your health.</p>

[galoisien]

<p>Uh … I’ve never used adderall. But you know what? I’m a libertarian. Prohibition of people’s own self-advancement –> generally a bad thing.</p>

<p>

Because you are Chinese you are an expert on Ginkgo Bilbao???

</p>

<p>No, because I have been well-inundated with its oh-so-miraculous effects from young. It’s all superstition, it’s all myth. Why not real chemicals that work? Screw superstition, go organic chemistry.</p>

[galoisien]

<p>

You don’t want a drug to dictate how successful you’ll be in life.

</p>

<p>Viral vector gene therapy. Get your cells to produce it. Problem solved.

You are INCORRECT! We all pay in the form of TAXES, when they raise the cost of insurance, because of dimwits like you, that did not take care of themselves.

</p>

<p>I’m so sorry that you support socialist economics.</p>

<p>Maybe you should side with LIBERTARIANISM and MELLONISM and avoid this problem.</p>

<p>

Again, I have no moral issues with the use of a non toxic enhancer.

</p>

<p>Did you fail bio class? “Non-toxic” is a myth. It all gets processed one way or another, and toxin byproducts will be produced. It’s simply how adapted or capable we are of handling or processing it. Genetics is probably involved. Like Asians and acetaldehyde dehydrogenase. Acetaldehyde is a toxin… but it’s a major component of “natural” fruity smells. You know, the fruits you eat.</p>

<p>Leafy vegetables especially – do you know how much toxins are in those? (Guess why plants produce these toxins? To prevent herbivory!) But hey! We have gut flora and a liver!</p>

[Pushin30]

<p>I am also a libertarian and “advancement” through chemical dependency throws us back to the thirties. Of course I don’t want big government telling us what to do. But I also don’t want a nation of prescription junkies, which is where we are heading.
Concerning Ginkgo, there are numerous case studies, not withstanding my personal experience to disprove what you are saying. Yours is just an opinion, not a fact.
[Ginkgo</a> biloba may improve memory in MS sufferers](<a href=“http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Research/Ginkgo-biloba-may-improve-memory-in-MS-sufferers]Ginkgo”>http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Research/Ginkgo-biloba-may-improve-memory-in-MS-sufferers)</p>

[Pushin30]

<p>You obviously do not know the definition of toxin and since I am feeling charitable today here you go geek. OOh, that has a ring to it…
[toxic</a> definition | Dictionary.com](<a href=“http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/toxic]toxic”>TOXIC Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com)</p>

[nyuwishabee]

<p>“you really can’t find some adderall somewhere if you want it? i find that hard to believe.”</p>

<p>you’d be surprised. i just called up about five people and its nowhere. addies are some of the hardest drugs to get. id have an easier time getting coke, at least here in nyc.</p>

[nyuwishabee]

<p>Do you guys crush it up and snort it or swallow it? And do you take IRS or XRs? And how much do you get charged?</p>

[leah377]

<p>i like to take half an IR. i swallow it…i probably will never snort anything in my life.</p>

<p>it lasts like a nice 5 or so hours.</p>

[nyuwishabee]

<p>Oh I prefer the IRS but the only thing I’ve been able to get are XRs. They give me horrible insomnia though, and I have no appetite whatsoever for two days. However, they also give me amazing grades.</p>

[ns9908]

<p>

you’d be surprised. i just called up about five people and its nowhere. addies are some of the hardest drugs to get. id have an easier time getting coke, at least here in nyc.

</p>

<p>Try the internet.</p>

[galoisien]

<p>I don’t think you want that sort of thing on your credit card, or anything traceable. Unless you could use an untraceable cash card or online check or Swiss online banking or something.</p>