Brief question on Admission Decision Dates

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Southern California
81

<p>Tornados,</p>

<p>Don’t read anything into this art night thing, I believe it’s a based on geography.</p>

<p>Applying to reach colleges is definitely NOT a waste of time. My daughter has a bunch on her list (SC included!) and I’m glad she did it this way and I’m glad you did too. My daughter’s list was created with the expectation of getting maybe 50-60% yes’s and thumbs down from the rest. I far prefer this than when you hear that someone applied to 4 schools and got in all 4. </p>

<p>The only things risked are the tiny sum for the app fee, a few hours for an essay, and in the case of an artist some time to upload the portfolio. Oh and you’re also risking one more thing: the risk of disappointment. IMO, that’s the one that keeps kids from stretching a little and hoping against all the odds and applying to schools that others say are impossible. The sting of disappointment dissipates quickly and then you’re on to the next challenge.</p>

<p>The thing about art majors is this: if one portfolio reviewing person falls in love with just one of your images than that can substantially change your your odds. Art schools need good artists that happen to be good students but it’s the artist they’re after.</p>

<p>You are most definitely not wasting your time, you are taking a shot at something valuable against long odds. Good for you!</p>

<p>Hang in there, we’ll both find out within a few weeks.<br>

  • Wheaty</p>
82

<p>Two quick questions.

  1. Has anyone heard back from them since these letters were sent out this past Friday?
  2. Will USC update your admission status on the online application page? I know schools like NYU give you your admission decision on that site.</p>
83

<p>^^</p>

<ol>
<li>Has anyone heard back from them since these letters were sent out this past Friday?</li>
</ol>

<p>No letters have been sent out yet–at least that we know of. People are <strong>speculating</strong> that letters may be going out soon.</p>

<ol>
<li>Will USC update your admission status on the online application page? I know schools like NYU give you your admission decision on that site.</li>
</ol>

<p>Based on what some of the early admits reported this year, the website will only state that a decision was made. The actual decision will be communicated in a letter to be received by mail.</p>

84

<p>@Kalel4</p>

<ol>
<li>You can have your decision emailed to you sometime in mid April or something if you have yet to receive a letter.</li>
</ol>

85

<p>Wheaty,</p>

<p>Thank you so much. Other than my mom and dad, you are the only person who has said, “Go for it!” Everyone else has told me I am a fool. I applied to 4 schools, got accepted at one and I am waiting on the other three. I had to do three separate portfolios, three separate supplemental applications, three separate essays, and then give it all to God. I know that you understand about all the portfolios, supp. apps., essays, etc. I am so surprised at how much more work an art major has to do for the application process, over what is required for any other major (except cinema kids-doing the extras like us). To be honest with you, just to know that someone at USC would look at my portfolio thrills me.</p>

<p>Have you heard what the average GPA, SAT/ACT is for Roski? I’m an unweighted 3.5, and I won’t even talk about my abysmal SAT scores…</p>

86

<p>Tornados,</p>

<p>Hey look at you - you’ve gotten one yes and you have the support of Mom and Dad for expensive art schools! You’re in great shape my friend!</p>

<p>As far as numbers goes, here’s what I know and here’s what I think:</p>

<p>Most colleges publish something called a Common Data Set. The CDS contains most of the pertinent data for incoming seated freshman for a given year. USC does not produce a CDS but other comparable schools do, including UCLA. IMO, SC - Roski and UCLA Arts are probably pretty comparable in their admissions but that’s <em>just a guess</em>.</p>

<p>(All of the following numbers are weighted.) In UCLA’s CDS they showed that incoming 2009 freshmen for the whole university had an average GPA of 4.24. So half the freshmen were above that number (!) but also half below. At the same time freshmen seated in the School of Arts and Architecture came in with a GPA average of 3.78. Again half above that number but also half below. These are facts that can be found be searching the UCLA site.</p>

<p>So your 3.5 unweighted is most likely dead in the middle of seated 2009 School of Arts freshmen.</p>

<p>SAT scoring was very similar and I don’t have the numbers in front of me but I seem to remember 1850/2400 as being the middle of seated 2009 Arts freshmen but I might be off a little. Again, half above and half below.</p>

<p>The two programs differ greatly when it comes to the Admissions office. At UCLA the Arts School has the ability to say yes to a kid with a super strong portfolio and meets minimum UC requirements (GPA 3.0 or above and <em>I think</em> SAT 1700 or above). If the Arts School loves your work and you’re a B student then you’re in.</p>

<p>Different story at USC. The USC Admissions department holds veto power over all applicants including Roski applicants. Roski has it’s own admissions staff and they have to fight to bring in this same B student with a killer portfolio. It’s possible but IMO more difficult for the fine folks at Roski as compared with their counterparts at UCLA Arts. Roski Admissions has to convince USC Admissions that this student is good for the university.</p>

<p>The absolute key for all of the above is your portfolio. It has to be killer for both programs.</p>

<p>All of this works in reverse too! You could be a 4.5 GPA, SAT 2400 kid and be easily denied from both UCLA Arts and USC - Roski if your art is average. This make sense to me as these are first and foremost ART schools and they want talented kids. At they same time they both want to know that you have the horsepower to successfully complete the non-art requirements at both colleges.</p>

<p>Keep in mind I only know the UCLA numbers and I’m guessing on USC because they don’t publish the CDS. Big guess on my part!!! I could be way off.</p>

<p>So what does it all mean? <strong>Subjective guessing coming up!</strong>
I think that at SC you could get in with a killer KILLER portfolio, with a weighted GPA of about 3.6-ish, and a minimum of SAT 1800. It’s just my wild guess so please don’t start writing any checks based on that. And when I say KILLER portfolio I mean top 5% of incoming freshmen art students. I would guess the average Roski admit has a weighted GPA of 3.8 and SAT of 1900 and a strong (but maybe not killer) portfolio. Just a guess.</p>

<p>I hope this isn’t misleading to anyone and again keep in mind it’s just me guessing at some of this as the real data isn’t public.</p>

<p>In the end it’s going to come down to your work. Both processes are a little convoluted but in the end I think both schools get it right almost all of the time. Top talent + motivating professors + great facilities = great artists and great programs. Both USC and UCLA get this right.</p>

<p>Just to even this out I’ll hit you with a little cold water at the end here: both schools will deny at least 9 out of 10 applicants. These art schools are VERY selective so the odds are still against us! I hate when that happens! :)</p>

<p>Best of luck,
Wheaty</p>

<p>PS. In an earlier message you mentioned high school councilors advising against applying to schools like USC. I have not found one H.S. councilor that understands the art student application path. It’s not their fault as very few students pick this path and the H.S. councilor is usually overwhelmed by just the ‘normal’ student requests/demands. They don’t have the time to research a path that maybe one or two kids might take from their H.S. As a result their advice on this subject is well-intended but it is often completely wrong.</p>

<p>PPS. Where’s that damn mailman! :)</p>

87

<p>I feel your pain, fine arts kids… I’m a performing arts kid! I applied to 10, one and a half safeties (I’m 85% sure I’ll get into the half safety), two schools where I have absolutely no chance academically of getting in, one where I have a small chance of getting in academically, and one where I have a small chance of getting in artistically. The rest were likely/slight reaches… I think. I’ve only heard back from one, the full-out safety. It was in a tiny envelope (thin, and the size of half a piece of paper) that said “small envelope, big news!” but I already knew I was in there from my online status. </p>

<p>Ugh I’m stranded over here on the east coast, so it’ll take me even longer to get my mail!</p>

88

<p>I got in with a 3.5 UW and 2180 SAT, but I get the feeling it might have been my portfolio that was the deciding factor (A lot of digital artwork)</p>

<p>I applied for architecture and not fine arts, however.</p>

89

<p>Wisdomsomehow, did you have to do an audition? Thanks for understanding about the fine arts kids. It is odd how the artistic community (both fine arts/performing arts) are considered to be a little bit of second class citizens during this process. I guess it must take longer to review our larger more complicated applications. But, best of luck. You would love the west coast.</p>

<p>Wheaty, again…thank you for being so informative and so supportive. I will be holding my breathe, but not destroyed if I don’t get in. I have to get tons of financial aid and lots of scholarships to even be able to accept if it is offered. I think you are probably right about the admissions process being similar between UCLA/USC. I never thought about the impact of the admissions department because I just assumed that USC Roski and UCLA D&MA would make all the decisions. I thought the admissions would completely defer to their opinions. Interesting…</p>

<p>Here is something a little off the subject. I had a friend who had a 2.2 out of high school, and a 1.7 out of CC. She applied to have a “reconsideration” of her bad semester grades removed through the CC appeals process. The CC Board granted her request, her 3 bad semesters of F’s were expunged, she repeated classes, and ended up with a CC 4.0. In the process of doing that, she signed the guaranteed entry paperwork between her CC and UCLA, which guaranteed her a spot at UCLA as a transfer student. She was one of 11 kids across the national accepted at UCLA for their Directorial Major. Her SAT’s were horrible. Her parents assumed that she got in because she was a cash customer (no need for financial aid/loans, etc.). Now that I know more about all of this, I am pretty shocked that she got in. I just assumed that she got in because of the cash thing or that guaranteed entry program. I just wonder how many other students take up places that otherwise highly qualified students would have gotten, because they were part of the guaranteed entry program?</p>

90

<p>Not for USC, no, though I did audition for NYU. I did interview though, over the phone, and I thought it went well. I had a good campus visit last summer, too. I opted to go with the BA route at USC, not the BFA, so I can double major. And by opted I mean my parents pretty much are forcing me to (nicely, though–they don’t want me to be a starving artist. I wouldn’t mind being a starving artist, but they don’t get that, I don’t think).</p>

<p>Yeah, I used to live in LA when I was really young actually. Honestly, I prefer San Diego to LA, but beggars can’t be choosers. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>The ones I’m jealous of are the dance ones–my friend’s already heard back academically and/or artistically from all of her school except one, a northeastern liberal arts school. Grr. So jealous of her!</p>

91

<p>I am uncertain about SC’s policy on the common data set. However, SC publishes on their admissions website a complete profile of their freshmen class. It is loaded with information regarding test scores, geographical information, ethnic diversity and other helpful data. In addition, in their admissions brochure there is more information about the university as an entire unit. I think you will find plenty of interesting comparisons.</p>

<p>Some of the schools at SC do publish certain statistics about their students. It appears some give more information than others.</p>

<p>Do keep in mind that UCLA has had to cope with huge budget cuts. These remarks are from a N.Y. Times article and a speech given at UCLA.</p>

<p>A shortfall of many millions is expected for the academic year. At UCLA class size has increased by 20% over the last 3 years. Eliminated have been 165 courses. Tuition increases are $1170 this year and $1344 next year. Student fees have increased 32%.
UCLA has reduced faculty & staff hiring, cut spending on equipment, travel and consolidated data centers and communication networks. At the time of the speech 36 faculty, 95 lecturers and 109 TAs had been cut. Support for research centers will be cut 50% and 40% for teaching services. Student services will be cut by 10%. Parking fees will increase by 40%. Average class size is expected to be 60 per class.</p>

<p>The chancellor’s quote, “UCLA is overenrolled.”</p>

<p>Students commented in the Times article what affected them was inability to obtain spots in required classes. It appears to be difficult to graduate in four years. Some students remarked they sat outside of classes in the hall to listen to a professor as there was not room in the classroom. Other students said there were rooms for two which are now rooms for three in the dorms.</p>

<p>Eventually continued cuts will be felt across the campus.</p>

<p>The N.Y. Times article was published on Oct. 26, 2009.</p>

92

<p>oddly enough, a family acquaintance just graduated from UCLA in three years, though she did go to school over the summer. </p>

<p>I didn’t get a home-y kind of vibe at UCLA like I got at USC. I don’t know what it is exactly, but I liked USC better.</p>

93

<p>Where can we find that SC’s admissions data?</p>

94

<p>^^same here. ucla & berkeley felt much more ‘graduate-y’, while usc felt more ‘undergraduate-y’. lol. maybe it’s the whole public school vs. private school vibe : P</p>

95

<p>Go to SC website [USC</a> - University of Southern California](<a href=“http://www.usc.edu%5DUSC”>http://www.usc.edu) . Click on undergraduate admissions. See menu on left. On the menu is a line that says “Admissions Profile” or similar phrase. Click again. It is there. </p>

<p>The 2009 class was larger and the admit rate slightly higher than 2008. There was concern about the affect of the recession on applications. This year SC will admit fewer than last year. </p>

<p>I am on another alumni board. One dad posted his daughter was a TA at Berkeley. She was a TA for an upper division class. In previous years her class had 30 students. This year she has 120 students. </p>

<p>Despite some cuts on travel and administration SC is adding majors and will keep the 1/9 teacher student ratio.</p>

96

<p>GG, do you happen to know why SC is admitting fewer this year? </p>

<p>Last year, I recall reading something where some wonderful SC official was quoted as saying they might admit slightly more due to the recession question, just to make sure the usual number matriculated. Then this person went on to say if they ended up slightly over-enrolling as a result, that was a-okay. I remember loving this person.</p>

<p>But even if I dreamed this, or it wasn’t SC, why the change this year?</p>

97

<p>Dear Jazz Mom,
The target number is 2600. The university went over that number in recent years. My guesses are: (I have no position at SC)</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Housing spots–The more students over 2600 the more difficult it is to house all freshmen on campus, which is the SC policy.</p></li>
<li><p>Personal attention–SC wants to continue improving the undergraduate experience</p></li>
<li><p>Selectivity–Many rankings count admit rate </p></li>
<li><p>Improving applicant pool–The SAT scores of applicants went up 20 points this fall</p></li>
<li><p>Desire to improve yield–The more difficult it is to enroll in a desirable university the more students apply and wish to attend.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>ALL the above is complete speculation.</p>

98

<p>USC does participate in the U-CAN college information admissions organization. This is a
site that huge numbers of PRIVATE universities use for data comparisons.</p>

<p>U-CAN</p>

<p>This is the University and College Accountability Network.</p>

<p>Website: [U-CAN:University&lt;/a&gt; and College Accountability Network](<a href=“http://www.ucan-network.org%5DU-CAN:University”>http://www.ucan-network.org)</p>

<p>On the site are lists, explanations, bar graphs and all sorts of useful information.</p>

99

<p>thanks for the links Georgia Girl!</p>