<p>Yeah, have the book, read the book. What it doesn’t say is, “it is very likely that your chld will not succeed in college.”</p>
<p>I’m sorry to bring my current negative frame of mind to this thread. Have you been reading about the Secretary of Education proposing that schools only be allowed to participate in the NCAA tournament if they graduate at least 40% of their players? He’s talking about an issue that is shameful and that few people want to talk about.</p>
<p>I’m sort of in that place right now with regard to Asperger’s. No one ever wants to tell a parent “your child can’t make it” and no parent ever wants to tell their child, “you can’t make it.” Baylor isn’t going to tell the parents of that star basketball player who barely scraped into the school academically, “there is a high liklihood that your son won’t earn a college degree after his time here” and the authors and the GCs and the school psychologists and the admissions officers are not going to tell the parents of Aspies the same thing either.</p>
<p>Missypie, yes and no especially in this case. The OPs son enrolled at a highly selective, highly competitive college of the ilk that generally doesn’t do alot of handholding. It would be comparable to me sending my dyslexic son off to a college known for heavy, heavy reading and tons of writing needed to be executed over short periods of time. I’d never do that regardless of his ability to be admitted as it would be a recipe for failure. I’d never send a wheelchair bound student to a college that didn’t meet ADA with ramps, elevators, etc. even if admitted. You just wouldn’t do that as a parent. The OPs family gave it a shot for whatever reason. Doesn’t mean their son will never complete college, it simply means he may not complete it at the particular college he’s at now. Finally, college is like a three legged chair…only one of the legs is intelligence, another leg is drive and determination and the third leg is all about the balance.</p>
<p>Missypie is right. </p>
<p>The long-term employment probability for adult Aspies is abysmal. </p>
<p>A psychologist I know who (supposedly) specializes in AS told me that he’s heard that colleges simply don’t support his clients with AS. He told me that what is needed is a group home on a college campus for Aspies. I’m beginning to think he might be right!</p>
<p>This is a complicated disorder, and while understanding of it in the world of education has improved in the past decade or so, there is still a long way to go. And self-advocacy is particularly difficult for an Aspie.</p>
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<p>One of our “no name state universities” actually has such a group home. Someone told me about their program and I totally discounted it as more appropriate for someone much deeper on the autism spectrum…plus, I didn’t want him to go to that school when I knew he could get into much better. Now, I’m thinking of visitng and putting Son on the waiting list for that program.</p>
<p>Actually, I think maybe bigtrees was highlighting that the OP left the fact that her son was an Aspie out of her post those years ago because she wanted to believe that her kid was a typical kid and that his Asperger’s was not the reason for his actions. (Maybe it wasn’t, but why not disclose all to see if parents of other Aspies have had similar experiences?) I have met many Aspie parents with incredibly bright kids whose heads are, unfortunately, way in the sand. A mother I know uses her son’s superior IQ as justification that he should be taking a very demanding curriculum in high school, yet her son has some serious co-morbid disabilities which prevent him from performing in some of those classes. (Others that don’t require certain types of work are not an issue for him though.) Mom would therefore like those classes to be modified so that he doesn’t have to do the same type of work that the other kids are doing, yet they are honors and AP classes and the type and intensity of work is sometimes what makes the class what it is. As we have discovered here, while one can often get these sorts of accommodations in high school, they rarely exist in college and not at all in the real world. And most importantly, IQ doesn’t mean everything. (He is not taking a full schedule in high school as of yet because of the amount of work that would be involved for him and because he needs private tutoring during school hours to help him manage certain classes, so it will take him more than four years to graduate.)</p>
<p>Missypie…I think part of the reason that the schools don’t tell those parents that their kids may not make it in certain situations is fear of lawsuits. This parent I know was incensed when the school recommended her child not take a language because he might have difficulty with it based on his co-morbid disabilities; her reaction was that her child was going to go to a highly selective college because of his high intelligence and those colleges require a language, and that any school who would say this to her kid was not doing right by him.</p>
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<p>But it’s one of the things that makes the puzzle so confounding. You take the 105 IQ kid who does “okay” in high school and send him to an average college and he does “okay” in college (even with a bit of partying and class skipping.) Then you take the 125-140 IQ kid (who happens to have Asperger’s) who did “well” in high school and send him to college and he does terribly in college (with zero partying or class skipping.)</p>
<p>The OP’s son is both skipping classes and partying (he is in a fraternity)…I don’t really know if it’s AS or a greek problem. He won’t be the first fraternity member to flunk out of college.</p>
<p>Where did the OP say her S is in a frat?</p>
<p>That’s true the other way too. You can take a kid with a low average IQ and incredible social and organizational skills…just not able to learn that quickly…but they get by in college. And another kid with that 105 IQ but with poor social and time management skills can’t make it through the year. And even two kids with the same IQ…if one kid’s full scale is because of a high processing speed and another’s is because their verbal IQ is high but their processing is below average, it makes a huge difference. So many factors…</p>
<p>And what about people that incredible with electronics versus those who could never disassemble and reassemble even a garage door opener but can quote Shakespeare?</p>
<p>I may have been confused with Olymom…regardless, the OP has said that her son has a social life for the first time.</p>
<p>Missypie there is so much more to college and the working world than IQ. It is a dangerous assumption that one will succeed simply because one has a high IQ. It really does take a variety of skills to be successful…personal and interpersonal. Like RTR is saying there are so many factors.</p>
<p>As I said, the fact that these very bright kids are doing poorly in school at an alarming rate is just one thing that makes the puzzle so confounding.</p>
<p>It’s perhaps due to all the accomodations and support that is now available in a traditional high school setting so these kids are graduating high school at higher rates. Parents also have expectations that kids will go to college now more than decades ago. We have a distant (older) family member who was an abject failure in high school and I’m not certain if he ever even graduated… but he was brilliant. Ended up in the computer industry in it’s infancy. We used to speculate that he had something wrong, dyslexia or ADD or something but in those days there wasn’t support, accomodations, IEPs and the like.</p>
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<p>Perhaps, but my son hasn’t had any accomodations since 7th grade. He was transitioned out of special ed services entirely in 9th grade. So if a kid earns a 3.8 with 11 AP classes with absolutely no accomodations or special support in high school, most people would think that he’d at least be able to pass freshman classes in college. I think that’s a pretty reasonable assumption and I sure didn’t know until this month that it was wrong. I guess the issue is taking away the structure of high school and the removal of parental support/coaching.</p>
<p>But the issue you’re experience is not limited to people who suffer from Autism/Aspergers.</p>
<p>I had a lot of friends in college that dropped out freshman year. Some of them were sharp cookies in high school. They just didn’t have the self-motivation and drive to attend class, turn in homework assignments, and study homework when there were so many other fun things to do.</p>
<p>Some went to different schools to finish college. Some never did. I haven’t kept track of most of them, but the ones who I do still all seem to be happily employed.</p>
<p>OP’s kid is not in a frat. He is in a dorm - “house”, excuse me.</p>
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<p>Of couse not doing well in college is not limited to people with Aspergers. I’m trying to think of an analogy that will help you understand. I’ve heard people saying what you’re saying for years now and there is a difference.</p>
<p>Let’s say I’m bemoaning the fact that my child always comes in last in the hundred meter dash. You might say that lots of people can’t run fast - he may not be training, he may be wearing ill fitting shoes, he may be eating the wrong foods, he may be hungover on race days, he may be obese, he may not be a hard worker, he may not have the self motivation to push himself. Then I say, “he broke his leg and he’s on crutches.” Once you have that information, you don’t keep saying, “he doesn’t have the motivation, he’s not working hard enough.” You realize that there is a *reason *he can’t run fast.</p>
<p>Executive function disorder is the reason these kids have so much trouble.</p>
<p>So what are you suggesting?</p>
<p>What needs to be done so AS students can pass college, but in a way that is fair to other students (including those who just don’t get it but don’t have AS), and a way that will ensure employers will believe the diploma indicates the person has the necessary skills to do a particular job?</p>
<p>I’m one who can’t run fast and my liability isn’t on your list – asthma, which went undiagnosed all the years I wondered why I couldn’t run fast.</p>
<p>So missypie – your point is well-taken.</p>
<p>I think at the top schools other issues come into play. When the entire class are the super achievers from high school teachers create even higher standards to create the top of the class vs. the bottom.</p>
<p>The kid who squeaks by with an A- in calculus may well fail the next level up in college because the foundation is being created for math majors.</p>
<p>My D was failing Ancient Greek at the same time she was earning a A in English.</p>
<p>My S was failing level 3 music theory (wanted to be a composer) while he was earning solid B’s in Ancient Greek.</p>
<p>Both kids dropped those classes and concluded that wasn’t where their strengths lay. Both assured me they were working at the top of the their game and failing anyway.</p>
<p>So, elite colleges are going to steer kids into the areas in which they excel and discourage them from pursuing others with low grades. </p>
<p>BTW: S took a summer course at the local state u. Got an A+ for work that wouldn’t even earn him a C at his college.</p>
<p>So some of the failure is the expectation of the colleges.</p>
<p>Not everyone can be an A student at an elite college.</p>