<p>I think this is spot on and a huge part of the equation. I know for fact that if we rode herd on our boys S1 and S2 that they could have gotten a 4.0 or darn close to it. But we don’t and they didn’t. They woke to their own alarm clocks, drove themselves to and from school and to and from work and sports practices, etc. Did well on the ACT/SAT stuff. That said, S1 is successful in college cruising along at about the same 3.5 GPA he cruised through high school with which is not all that horrible a situation and S2 is right behind him and I expect will be similar. My S3 is dyslexic with a higher IQ and is super competitive and works five times harder than his older brothers and has a 3.89 so far in high school taking the same classes in a rigorous couseload as his brothers did. But he gets some extra time for classes with heavier reading loads and if he wants can take a test in a quiet room, extra-credit projects if he asks and he has a morning study hall that isn’t open to all students…I worry more about him in college (and he has already announced that he can go to a “better” college than his brothers) than his rock steady B+ brothers simply because he has a support net of teachers and counselors watching out for him.</p>
<p>One attractive aspect of elite colleges, though, is their generally high freshman retention and graduation rates, even for athletes with stats WAY below those of other students. (It’s amusing to look at our high school’s Naviance for some of the Ivy’s, for instance.) Parents assume that these high retention and graduation rates are reflective of individualized attention as well as high admission standards and parental wealth.</p>
<p>Parents who send their students to these colleges do assume that even if it turns out that their child ends up treading water in a chosen major, after trying hard and having any issues that should be trivial(such as a need for a notetaker or social assistance in approaching a professor during office hours or in taking advantage of other assistance offered at the school) addressed in a timely manner, they WILL be guided to an area of strength, in a timely manner. </p>
<p>So, yes, I would question if many Aspie students who are at the top of the application pool coming in, and had few if any accommodations in high school AND are taking classes in areas in which they and others are confident they should excel, are nonetheless unable to return sophomore year, let alone graduate.</p>
<p>If a student with a diagnosis of AS is having trouble, I would not rush to the assumption that it is because they are “not smart enough” in a larger pool. I would first look at other factors - sometimes as simple as whether they have been taking their meds, whether they are getting enough quiet or sleep, whether they are suffering from an untreated illness, or whether they are confident enough to go to office hours when they have questions.</p>
<p>I am always wary when one mentions the “fairness” of accomodations, because I suspect that people don’t believe that invisible disablities are “real.” </p>
<p>I had a friend who taught HS English. She told me about a boy in her school who had a learning difference and several accomodations. Lo and behold, at the end of junior year he was ranked #2 in a very large, competitive class. After that became common knowledge, there was tremendous pressure within the school to take away the accomodations. Unfortuately, my friend passed away suddenly so I didn’t ever hear how it all turned out, but the whole situation made me furious.</p>
<p>I am thinking hard about what’s to be done. I do think that my assumption that a small LAC would be best was wrong. Son’s LAC - like many - has broad gen ed requirements. They force you to take classes that arent up your alley, which is great for some students and disasterous for others.</p>
<p>My sister doesn’t have any diagnosed disablities, but I bet if you tested her, her IQ would be above 130 in verbal areas and below 80 in math areas. She is incredibly one-sided. She failed college algebra twice (like HS Algebra II) - passing Algebra was the ONLY thing preventing her from getting her degree. She finally was sent to the last ditch class with the other math deficients and was able to pass…three failures and she would not have been able to get her degree. She now teaches composition at a community college. Would the world have been a better place had she been denied her degree?</p>
<p>I think so much is “goodness of fit” – Give an enthusiastic, big Irish setter to a frail grandmother as a pet and it is a disaster. Grandmother will be knocked off her feet and the hyper setter will eat the sofa. Give that same dog to the sociable guy/gal who jogs 5K a day and life is beautiful. There is no “bad” dog here – just situations that work or don’t work. </p>
<p>OP has to work with the student to find something that works. But, even more importantly, the student has to be motivated to try a wide assortment of things to find what works. Is there an Asperberger’s work forum somewhere? More than anything it sounds like people who have fought these battles and succeeded are the ones that will have specific, helpful advice. Where are Aspies successfully employed??? I know Microsoft is one place. Where are others?</p>
<p>Wouldn’t it be a gift to these students to know of others who are a decade ahead of them and thriving?</p>
<p>Temple Grandin, a well known autistic woman, talks about her worry that autistic kids and Aspie kids are not getting the right education. They’re not ending up in “Silicon Valley, where they belong,” she laments. Indeed, I live in Silicon Valley and it’s filled with people on the autism spectrum, Aspie parents working in technology fields, and Aspie kids. I have about eight friends with Aspergers or autistic children (and I’m not very social-- I don’t have that many friends!).</p>
<p>Unfortunately, Missypie and I are both hearing of Aspie kids failing at all different kinds of colleges. So what appears to be a good fit for an Aspie often turns out not to be. Especially when the college promises services, but then does not deliver them.</p>
<p>The jaded marketing person inside me is thinking hmmmm there’s a market there for a college that wants to grab the brass ring. High scoring kids that need a certain structure.</p>
<p>On the issue of colleges providing services, I think there is only so much a college can do. In my son’s instance, someone would have had to be in his room to smack him (just kidding!) every time he went on the Internet and make him do his work. He doesn’t need accomodations, because he can do the work and take the tests. He just does not have the consistent discipline or interest to do it regularly.<br>
We just set him up with a counseling service on campus - we’ll see how that works out. (Actually, he loves to talk to therapists. I’m not sure he actually gets anything out of it.)</p>
<p>Missypie, sorry to hear your son is starting to struggle. I totally agree with you: that Aspie kids benefit from the structure of their HS and their parents and have not learned how to generalize in order to to succeed on one’s own. </p>
<p>I think part of our problem was that our son has amazing SAT scores, so we pushed him to apply to schools that were much too hard. Taking SATs was structured and formulaic…succeeding in college is anything but structured or formulaic. </p>
<p>We also hoped that college would be that “great learning experience where he’d grow up”. (read: denial) Instead, our immature son became even more immature.</p>
<p>I think we’re just seeing what’s happening, given the age of our kids. There are many, many more kids diagnosed Asperger’s today who are just starting elementary school. Momof3boys, our kids are really in the first wave. There is a market to be tapped into. Absolutely.</p>
<p>hallomar, I think the counseling service is a very good move. maybe it’ll be the kind of appropriate services you’re looking for: that advocate that regularly checks in on him. Checks the syllabus. Checks the schedule. This type of service provider is very similar to what many kids got if they have organizational issues in elementary school. It’s the structured element that kids need. Let that person create a schedule that allows for internet time…you know how kids with Asperger’s prefer a schedule anyway, right?</p>
<p>This is actually pretty similar to the kinds of arrangements that were in place for athletes at a big Division I school where I worked years ago, again for the athletes. I’m not disagreeing with it being available to athletes, but when I think about the non-athlete kids for whom this kind of program could make the difference between being a success in college and flunking out, I’m sad.</p>
<p>I can assure you that it is very possible for an Aspie kid to succeed. We were very fearful–will he spend all night on the internet, never leaving his room, never having social connections, not turning in homework on time, never exercising or eating, not getting enough sleep.</p>
<p>Yet he is doing great. More social contact than ever, joined a frat (doesn’t drink), exercising daily, sleeping well, eating, happy, better grades than he ever had in high school, less internet time because there are so many fun things to do on campus. He loves what he is doing and where he is.</p>
<p>What can I attribute this to? In his case, he was probably better off getting away from a hovering mother (me) and taking care of himself. He is at a school that is a comfortable, warm place for an Aspie-challenging, accepting. He found a major and an athletic activity that he is obsessed with. And for a kid with Aspergers…when they can focus on their obsessions, nobody does it better than they do. If there is a way to get them into activities and majors that they are entranced with, it means everything. I’m not the obnoxious parent who always brags about their kid, I just want people to know there is hope. And I sincerely pray this lasts.</p>
<p>Bravo about the nun above, and busdriver11’s success story!</p>
<p>My kid isnt an Aspie kid, so I am joining this discussion as an incredibly interested observer. I studied Engineering a million years ago (early 1980’s) and I want to note that most of the very smartest (you know the ones we call scary smart) people I have run into in my life have behaviours that I am now more clearly understanding seem to fall into a spectrum related to Aspergers. </p>
<p>as busdriver11 says above “And for a kid with Aspergers…when they can focus on their obsessions, nobody does it better than they do” </p>
<p>I guess what I am trying to say is that given how advanced our society is, I would think that colleges would do what it takes to accomodate these kids and if only for selfish purposes tap into them as a tremendous resource. </p>
<p>But people are so uncomfortable with differences.</p>
<p>I think you need to analyse what kind of support/coaching a kid is actually receiving prior to living on his/her own. Missypie…you said that your son was functioning with no accommodations in school, but what does “support/coaching” mean to you? Does it mean that you got him up in the morning, told him when to do homework, helped him organize his work? Those are executive function tasks and if so, your son was indeed receiving accommodations…it’s just that you were providing them! </p>
<p>For Aspie kids who are only children, oldest children, or the children of Aspie parents, it’s very easy to forget that what these kids need at their age is very atypical, and be fooled into thinking that because they are so bright, they can survive anywhere. And it would be nice if all people with all kinds of disabilities could be accommodated to survive anywhere. But the real world doesn’t provide that for people, so there has to be a point in life where these kids can either truly function independently, or realize that they just won’t be able to do the same things in life that <em>some</em> others can do. Sure, they can go to college and learn, but maybe they will have to live at home until they can learn how to better organize themselves. Or they aren’t ready yet for college (it’s not all about intelligence). Whatever it is, it’s so important to really try to get an objective view of your kids and his/her needs. Sorry to be harsh, but I just see too many parents of all kinds of kids with issues who are fooling themselves, and it’s frustrating.</p>
<p>RTR I don’t think you are being harsh. I actually think every parent needs to try to take a step back from their kids and understand them, what their motivator is, etc.i What you are saying is true for everyone. It’s probably why I hate the “chances” threads because they are so one dimensional.</p>
<p>missypie and op and others, I’m so sorry to hear that your kids are having troubles related to disabilities, especially given the intellectual level they could achieve if there were life coaches to assist them in this journey. I actually think the entire culture suffers when everyone isn’t able to achieve thier best in whichever area. I hope you will continue to look for viable solutions and when you find them, because you will, that you will make sure to try to get this information out there.</p>
<p>My D is a high IQ dsylexic who couldn’t even read until she was in 7th grade. It’s not the same thing, I know…</p>
<p>When it came time to pick colleges, I was really inclined to push her to attend one of the highly selective schools which really wanted her…(perfect test scores, etc), and I did push and she did finally tell me that she was going to go to the school where the culture would be most accepting of her dyslexia and dysgraphia…(She has no problem reading now, but her writing will never be at a caliber which satisfies her). </p>
<p>Ultimately she selected a school where she could study what she wanted to study and still have a life. She’s very happy.</p>
<p>I recognize that children with aspergers, depending on where they are on the effected scale, might not really be able to make the differentiation as to which school would be best for them in terms of whatever it is they need to succeed, but it would be good if there were a better way to make such a determination. I’m sure the struggle is overwhelming and scary for you as parents, just when you were hoping to be able to let go of some of that tension and get on with other areas of your life.</p>
<p>I think sometimes people believe parents WANT to be helicopter parents in these situations when really it is simply a matter of trying to keep the kids in the game until a better solution can be found. Good luck to all of you.</p>
Well, maybe not the first wave. AS has been in the DSM since 1994 (and now it’s probably going to be taken out of the next revision, which is an interesting conversation!). My oldest has AS, and he graduated from college several years ago. I felt like he was in the “first wave” of kids going through my school system. </p>
<p>I don’t write much about him publicly here, but I’d be glad to share privately. He did have some stumbles in college, but we are very grateful that now he has a wonderful job. And of course there are still other Aspie issues…</p>