<p>My son is debating between Olin College and Brown University. He is leaning strongly toward engineering but is unsure about which discipline. He is also interested in management as a long-term goal.</p>
<p>We sure could use some help with pros and cons. I've compiled some below. Please comment freely. Thank you.</p>
<p>Olin - Pros
Very hands-on curriculum starting freshman year
Inclusive student body - too small to have social cliques
Small classes and labs
Students were friendly to us and seemed happy
Dorms
Cafeteria food</p>
<p>Brown - Pros
Plenty of major programs to choose from
Excellent intramural sports programs
Plenty of social groups to choose from
Well established reputation - Ivy league
Students were friendly to us and seemed happy</p>
<p>Olin - Cons
Very few major programs to choose from
Reputation is not firmly established</p>
<p>Brown - Cons
Large lectures
Fin Aid package is less than generous
Campus is cramped
Too many students
Dorms
Cafeteria food</p>
<p>Are these schools to which your son has already been admitted, and you’re trying to make a decision by May 1st? How much have you learned about Olin and what they have to offer (for instance, were you able to attend Candidate’s Weekend)?</p>
<p>Tony Wagner just came out with a new book called Creating Innovators, and there’s a 23 page passage about Olin, where he interviews President Miller, faculty, students and graduates, and then describes a number of central tenets of Olin approach and contrasts it with more traditional approaches. It’s good stuff, and I think it would be well worth your picking it up if you’re currently on the fence about Olin versus some other engineering program.</p>
<p>I don’t know much about Brown’s program, so I really can’t comment on that.</p>
<p>I’ll also add that Brown is a wonderful institution with many excellent qualities, but I don’t think of the engineering program as being one of their strengths.</p>
<p>My son attends Olin, and he does love the tiny/passionate school and the project-based learning. (The tiny size would be to limiting for some students). Olin provides an excellent engineering-etc. education, but the academics are very intense… the students work really hard. I do like the way they seem to work together and enjoy the experience. </p>
<p>I don’t know much about Brown (except that my cousin who liked her Boston College experience says that based on the interesting grads she should have also considered Brown).</p>
<p>As far as management…is he thinking project management or more people management? Olin would help with both though I think. Many Olin students have been able to become project managers at places like google directly out of undergrad. My friends at google say it’s much more unusual for other new hires to go straight into management. Also, quite a few Olin students after working for a few years have head back to school to Harvard’s Business School and while I imagine some will use it to make more start-ups, some will use it from management. </p>
<p>If you student’s goals will require further education (Masters or PhD), Olin is a great place to go to get the critical thinking, team work, project-based engineering and design. Olin has really good success rates at helping their students get into top graduate school programs (Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Berkeley, etc) and a lot of students who try have been able to get NSF grants to study.</p>
<p>I’m a high school senior interested in engineering as well, and the one thing I remember clearly about my tour of brown was getting to see the gigantic machine shop. My tour guide explained the system of chain link cages and colored tape that marked the machines and areas that undergrads were NOT allowed to use. About then I realized that the bit of conventional wisdom about the Ivies being focused on grad students was probably true. I sent in my deposit to Olin a few days ago and couldn’t be more excited!</p>
<p>that said, Olin probably isn’t the place for someone looking for a large student body or someone who isn’t sure about engineering as a major and wants to keep their options open.
Good Luck!</p>
<p>poosieloo - You will definitely have access to some great equipment at Olin! Congratulations on finding Olin, a school that seems to suit you well. Enjoy the rest of your senior year.</p>
<p>I vote for Brown actually… It’s a more liberal college with more freedom and personal customization. I think that even if engineering is a passion, attending a larger university like Brown gives better access to broader subjects so that if the student changes their mind or seeks different opportunities, that would be available. Both are excellent though.</p>
<p>Fair point, thenik96. This dichotomy between the awesomeness of the Olin engineering program versus the breadth of opportunities + flexibility to change one’s general area of focus at a school like Brown is at the heart of my D’s ongoing decision drama. Well, that and size-related concerns. The latter issue is probably actually the dominant one for her at this point.</p>
<p>For a kid who’s really certain that they want to study engineering, however, I think the Olin curriculum is second to none.</p>
<p>Good for you for making up your mind and writing the check - and I do think you have made an excellent choice! I’m the mom of a High School Sophomore who is interested in Engineering and I sort of think Olin is best for the ‘Olin Kids’ and Brown is best for the ‘Brown Kids.’ </p>
<p>I went to Penn and well remember the ‘grad student’ emphasis. I had friends who were such superstars that they actually did get their foot in the door as undergraduates - but I was so not that kid. I would have done much much better with more guidance from the Mentor level folks. The funny thing is that most adults thought that I was mature beyond my years, unusually poised, good at speaking up for myself, ready for that giant whirl of choice that a large University offers.</p>
<p>The whole metaphor of ‘big fish, small pond’ seems to imply that larger is what big fish need. I think educations needs to be more of a well tended fish tank with someone regulating the temperature, pH and nutrition so that each fish can grow in it’s optimal way until it’s discovered what sort of fish it really is. In the world of nature some species take the strategy of creating a large number of offspring, and the whole point is for the big fish to eat the ‘small fry.’ Humans take a very different evolutionary stratagy. Each individual is takes years to nurture to it’s potential. After being a parent and seeing first hand how much investment is required, I’m not interested in my kid being in any kind of situation where the rule is ‘sink or swim.’ I like the idea of ‘swim as hard as you can, and there will be someone to catch you when you reach your limit.’ I like the fish tank or mentoring or ‘first with training wheels, then with guidance, then independly’ sort of situation. I think that for humans, the community thrives when all the individuals are as strong as possible. We aren’t natural prey of each other. I don’t think that some have to suffer so that others can thrive. I’ve led a sheltered life, so I could be wrong, but since no one knows how the economy actually works, I’m going with my perspective.</p>
<p>I read somewhere that among primates, the ability to learn by example is much more basic than the ability to observe another and imagine what they might need to be taught. Learning is hard work, and it feel ‘almost impossible’ under that best of circumstances and the worst of circumstances. That is where the value of teachers is so important. In my book it is a small miracle to pay enough attention to another human and figure out what, if anything, they need to do differently on their learning path. Do you know what you call a small pond where a whole bunch of big fish get exactly what they need to grow even bigger and really thrive? A Golden Age. </p>
<p>ParentSparkle- your thoughts are expressed extremely well and much appreciated!</p>
<p>Students should focus on schools that will serve them well and take into consideration their personality and don’t focus so much on status and name brand of the school. Where are they going to be happy? Where are they going to learn the most? Where are they going to fit in? That is what they should be thinking when they look at and eventually decide on a college.</p>
<p>One most important point no one mention is that if you get admitted into Olin, you almost have to pay nothing as every student gets hefty scholarship from the school.</p>
<p>Every admitted student currently receives a half-tuition scholarship and Olin also offers need-based aid for those that qualify. </p>
<p>From the Olin website-
Scholarship Policy:
Every admitted student receives a four-year, half-tuition scholarship valued at approximately $80,000 over four years.</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification. Our school counselor told us ‘almost no tuition fee’, like Cooper Union, but seems like that’s not true any more. I guess counselor’s information is little outdated. When they first started the school in early 2000, they were almost free. Now they started charging more money, now that they become one of the top engg. schools in the nation.
Most of the Electrical and Computer Enggineering graduates are recruited by Google and Micsrosoft, according to Asst. Admission Director of the school, who we met in college fair last night.</p>
<p>The first two classes got full-tuition and room paid for (because it was so new and such a risk being unaccredited. The next few classes got full-tuition (according to plan). The plan was ideally full-tuition for everyone forever, but it was supposed to go at least until 2020 if I remember correctly with all sorts of stipulations limiting tuition to not being more than the average in-state tuition at 6 or so pre-selected schools. </p>
<p>But then the economy died. That’s why they started charging half-tuition. It’s not because the school became well-known or kids started getting good jobs. The plan is to eventually return to full-tuition and the alumni put as much of their weight as possible on achieving that goal as soon as is financially feasible. President Miller also supports this goal.</p>