<p>That makes perfectly good sense, sviola. If you love a subject and you enroll in it, the chances that you will do well is very high–especially if it’s your passion. I don’t see anything wrong with that hypothesis.</p>
<p>
[quote=IBclass060Of course, Brown is hardly the only university to have grade inflation. Yale, for example, also seems to have a median GPA between 3.6 and 3.7.
[/quote]
Wrong. Unlike the Yale article, which was a self-reported student survey, the Brown statistics were published by the Brown administration. This discrepancy in average GPA between Brown and all of the other Ivies goes back at least as early as 1991. </p>
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Can you stop talking to yourself? </p>
<p>
Ironically, your laudable idea of putting knowledge above grades has permitted students MANIPULATE their grades so much that the average GPA’s of 0.2 higher than the rest of its Ivy peers. Isn’t it time to re-evaluate this “intellectual” model? </p>
<p>
Amherst has an open curriculum as well and still has an average GPA similar to all of Brown’s peers. In fact, Amherst lacks an engineering department and specializes in humanities which tend to contribute more to grade inflation, and yet maintains an average GPA much much lower than Brown’s. How can you explain this?</p>
<p>Insectetur: Where you would consider going?</p>
<p>I resent that you dismiss my anecdote with a supercilious “wrong.” An anecdote cannot be wrong. It is the truth, whether you like it or not. It may not be representative, but it is the truth.</p>
<p>And I notice that you did not refute a single one of the legitimate reasons I gave for why Brown has a higher average. Nor did you back up your spurious claim that everyone thinks Brown is a joke.</p>
<p>Calling people names is no way to win an argument.</p>
<p>fireandrain: I very much appreciated your earlier analysis of grades at Brown. Even accepting insectetur’s statistics I think that he or she is splitting hairs. By his or her statistics the grade inflation at Brown is only 0.1% away from Harvard, which isn’t much. There is grade inflation at the better schools in the country. That is not exactly a news flash. So what? When I was in graduate school the only grades given out were A’s and B’s, a C was considered a failing grade. The thinking was that the students in graduate school are already smart and so the grades should reflect that. I assume that is the thinking that the better schools in the country use to justify their grade inflation.</p>
<p>the proper response is to report insectetur’s posts as flame, not to reply to them</p>
<p>The answer I received when asking two professors who came here from UCB, they said essentially the same thing. I’m paraphrasing here, but I’ll word it like a quote:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That was what two UCB professors, one in ethnomusicology and the other in anthropology told me. My chem professors looked puzzled at the numbers, “Sure, in the smaller upper division courses with ten students it’s not rare for half to get As. But in the four large intro courses? It’s straight percentages. And if you don’t score within range of the class, you’re going to get a C.”</p>
<p>There’s a reason why chemistry only requires a 3.1 or 3.2 to earn honors and only 20-30% of our concentrators do it despite 100% of us writing theses that could be graded for honors. The reason is because those numbers are not telling the whole story, number one, and number two, the reasons for grade inflation are far from systemic and relate to individuals choices made across the curriculum. As someone who has sat on the College Curriculum Council which is charged at looking at these issues, we do think it’s a “problem” if there is something about the structure of the university which creates the easy As, however, time and time again the overwhelming response by the professors giving the As is that students who get them have earned them. Considering very few faculty members did either their Ph.D. or undergrad at Brown, I’m guessing what they’re considering to be A-level work is not completely divorced from the rest of academia where they learned what that meant.</p>
<p>The true answer is, yes, S/NC sucks up a bunch of Bs and Cs and they make up 20% of our grades here at Brown. Figuring that 3/4s of people taking a class SNC would get a B or lower, that would reduce the percentage of As at Brown right alongside our peers. However, there are huge benefits to the S/NC system which have nothing to do with this issue and therefore we’ll never get rid of the SNC grade option. Sorry if that means you get to try and ■■■■■ a Brown forum, but that’s the truth.</p>
<p>There’s so much hostility in this thread-- I would think applicants to Brown would at least discuss this in a civilized manner without the name calling.</p>
<p>There already has been a lot of post giving valid reasons at why the Brown grade inflation is high (but, as someone already pointed out, on a similar level to other top universities). I think it would be best if we leave insecteur alone and let him consider them himself.</p>
<p>an university. lol.</p>
<p>^ i noted that too, but I thought an LOL was more appropriate since OP takes his second-hand wisdom (ie OP doesnt go to Brown or any of the other schools he mentioned) so seriously. I recommend that OP chill him or herself down a bit and perhaps find a better outlet to work off his/her underlying bad attitude.</p>
<p>Brown is a great school. Who cares about grade inflation.</p>
<p>Some metrics:
1)Undergraduate schools represented at Harvard Law School for the 2006-7 Academic year:
a) Brown-48
b) Princeton-54
c) Dartmouth-35
d) Columbia-46
e) Cornell-45
f) Penn-57
2) Fulbright rankings for the 2006-7 academic year.
a)Yale-31
b)Harvard-25
c)Brown-24
d)Columbia-21
e)Penn-18
f)Cornell-15
g)Princeton-13
h)Dartmouth-Too few to enumerate.
3)Alma Maters represented at Yale Law Schoo for the 2002-3 Academic year:
a)Harvard-85
b)Yale-66
c)Prineton-26
d)Brown-18
e)Columbia-17
f)Dartmouth-15
g)Cornell-Too few to delineate.
h)Penn-Too few to delineate.
4)Cross-admit data for the Ivies:
Brown 56% Columbia 44%
Brown 76% Cornell 24%
Brown 61% Dartmouth 39%
Brown 65% Penn 35%
Princeton 73% Brown 27%
Yale 82% Brown 18%
Harvard 89% Brown 11%
5)Persons from Brown in the sciences.
Maria Zuber, PhD., Brown University, First female head of Planetary and Geological Sciences at MIT.
John Guttag, PhD., Brown University, Former chair at MIT’s Computer Science Department.
Ken Ribet, B.A., M.A., Brown University, contributor to proof of Fermat’s Last Theorem.
Brown seems plenty rigorous enough to me.</p>
<p>Law school admissions mostly considers LSAT scores and GPA. Citing law school placement actually reinforces the view of grade inflation at Brown rather than reduces it.</p>
<p>Maria Zuber graduated from Penn, by the way.</p>
<p>Brown’s LSAT average is also one of the highest in the country, meaning Brown students have the standardized scores to match the GPA achievements.</p>
<p>Top 10 LSAT Avg by UG
Harvard 166
Yale 165
Stanford 164
MIT 163
Brown 163
UPenn 163
Duke 163
Dartmouth 163
Columbia 163</p>
<p>But Zuber received her PhD in planetary geology from Brown, and Brown’s graduate programs are often maligned as lacking rigor and gravitas.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone claimed that. Brown is not particularly strong at the graduate level compared to its peers, to be sure, but geology in particular is exceedingly strong. In fact, it’s easily the strongest science program at Brown and quite possibly its strongest overall program. The department has long held very close ties with its sister department at MIT.</p>
<p>Everyone here is ridiculous. The obvious (and only) response to the OP:</p>
<p>Your mom is too easy.</p>
<p>So there.</p>
<p>I have friends who got into Brown this year who are brilliant. Far more intelligent than I will EVER be. Honestly, if their GPA is higher than mine when college is over, I’ll know it was because they EARNED it and not because I go to Yale and they go to Brown.</p>
<p>I have friends at Harvard and Princeton who simply don’t care - and accordingly, they do poorly. It’s not the school’s fault, rather it’s their own laziness that contributes to their low GPA. Please don’t criticize a college before you’ve been accepted and attended for at least a semester.</p>
<p>I also resent you calling Brown the joke of the Ivy League. First of all, what does that mean? It means that they’re the worst of the very TOP universities in the world? Second, the only people who I know (some attend Harvard others are at University of Maryland) who believe this are those who were not admitted.</p>
<p>Uhm, I hate to keep this thread alive, but dude you need to give Brown some props. </p>
<p>Again, you called Brown the joke of the Ivies, so you just called it a top 10 college, way to go, buddy. Brown lets students relax and not stress themselves out with the pass/fail system. Actually, it makes a lot of sense. You work harder when you like something, and when you’e not good at something, you have some leeway and your GPA won’t take a huge hit. </p>
<p>I also refer to the person who commneted about Yale Law’s grading system, and through your comments about Brown, you called the best law school in the entire country a joke! Again, way to go! </p>
<p>Stop hatin’ on a fine institution that has excellent food, quality of life, and wonderful educational philosophy. </p>
<p>BTW, you obviously don’t care for Brown, and several people never cared for Socrates, an excellent philospoher. If you give Socrates his props, then you must give Brown their due. Yes, I just used your ‘logic’ to make a point. </p>
<p>Game, set, and match. I just threw the tomahawk on you; you have been destroyed…pick whatever euphenism for beating that you may like! </p>
<p>In the words of Stephen Colbert, “I accept your apology!” ;)</p>
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<p>This is why my employer automatically deducts .2 from any Brown GPA. They’re still good hires, but a getting a good GPA at Brown is significantly less challenging than at other Ivies.</p>