Brown University UNDERRATED?

Applying to College
21

<p>It's stress free, not because they don't work hard.
It's stress free, because kids are actually taking classes they really want to take and designing their own majors.
The kids work extremely hard, and walk out with some of the best college experiences.
It's also very relaxed and stress free because of how tolerant and intellectually driven the students are.
Brown is ranked the sixth most selective university, so it can't be a school filled with "lazy" kids. Actually you have to be pretty motivated, since there are no set directions or courses for students to take.</p>

<p>Really? If they were all truly intellectually motivated they wouldn't be averse to intellectual exploration, which means they wouldn't mind a core. Of course they're less stressed if they only take classes they WANT to take. One of the points of college is to force people to go out of their comfort zones, what's the point when the students only take classes that they feel comfortable with? I'm not accusing them of being lazy. I know plenty of people who work hard and are intellectually limited. Plenty of computer scientists I know spent days working on cs projects but would rather cut themselves than write an essay, when their writing skills drastically need improvement. I can see these guys flocking to Brown just so they can avoid the writing requirements of other colleges. </p>

<p>And you have to be motivated to be enticed by a program in which you have no need to step outside your comfort zone and challenge level, not to mention unlimited amount of pass/fail classes? I'm pretty sure this is a lazy person's paradise. </p>

<p>My point is, if you take this "curriculum" out of Brown, its appeal will decrease by a factor of at least 10. What else does it offer? Egyptology? Rhode Island? Every top college is tolerant, every top college is driven and every top college can give kids good experiences if they work hard. My point is, the only reason MOST people give Brown a hard look is because, deep inside, they don't want to do the work the other colleges are making them do. I don't know what the actual students do, but from what my experiences are, most of the applicants probably think this way. So, from my point of view, much of Brown's appeal is derived not because it's that much better than its peers, but because it offers a choice for people to stay in their comfort zones. That's why before it came up with this "intellectual bribery" it was going on the high way to mediocrity.</p>

<p>I'm also annoyed with Brown because of how arrogant they seem about all of this. They sent me a pamphlet telling me that schools that have curriculum requirements are unequivocally inferior to their own system. As soon as I read that I threw it in the garbage. Any school that seeks to praise its own curriculum by insulting that of others must not be that confident about it in the first place.</p>

22

<p>Brown is nothing more than Ivy League + Open Curriculum.</p>

23

<p>When I was in summer school at Harvard's HSSP program, they had an interview with a bunch of junior HSSP highschooler with some students that were Harvard undergrad, they had this forum for those interested in applying and it was set up by Harvard admissions. I don't know but for some reason, there was a Brown guy there and he was doing some talking. And for whatever reason, I hear this Harvard dude just say something that was like a tease of how Brown didn't have an curriculumn. lol, It wasn't meant to be offense anything, it was kinda funny, but it was made much like a tease by the Harvard ppl that Brown's curriculumn was like...a funny interesting joke to them. I don't know, that was the feeling that I got from being there in the room and in the forum.</p>

24

<p>It's over rated if anything.</p>

25

<p>underrated on USNWR. In life its considered very highly. All around excellent school.</p>

26

<p>"and after visiting the schools i slightly have to disagree with the other post.</p>

<p>intellectual exploration-->pre-professional</p>

<ol>
<li>brown</li>
<li>yale.</li>
<li>princeton</li>
<li>columbia</li>
<li>harvard</li>
<li>dartmouth</li>
<li>cornell</li>
<li>U penn (so pre-professional) did not like it AT All."</li>
</ol>

<p>That's fair. 3-5 are pretty fluid.</p>

27

<p>look, ray, i'm not going to try and argue with you, because you seem very set in your views, but i do have a few things to say. </p>

<p>first of all, you're the one insulting the university and its curriculum, and then you claim you don't want to attend a school that insults another school's curriculum. not to mention, that every other ivy league defends their curriculum by critiscizing brown's "hippie" prone curriculum which is completely open. so, either you need to stop answering with a bias tone, or realize that all schools critiscize each other. brown gets alot of crap from other school, and people like you, as to why its a "lazy" school.</p>

<p>i don't even attend brown university, but i find your accusation towards the brown students as lazy to be very insulting. why? because, getting into that school, isn't made for lazy kids. in fact, they claim the brown kids are much more self-driven and independent and that is why they are able to thrive in the open-curriculum environment. i'm not here to try and boast it over other schools, but i don't think your critiscism was at all justified. i get the feeling you haven't even visited that school. i have visited that and other schools like columbia, which have a very strong core curriculum. and you may not believe me, but at princeton my tour guide was a girl, who claimed she was jealous of the brown students freedom and independence in their class choice, because she did not enjoy her core classes. </p>

<p>there is something special about having no core class. each class is independently taught and taken by people who really have a passion for that subject. imagine, for example columbia, where over 20-30 professors have to teach the same core to the incoming freshman and sophomore. then can you expect the same dedication and passion for the subject from each of the professors? not to mention, the lack of enthuse from the kids who may not be interested in that subject.</p>

<p>i completely disagree with your claim, that because some students deal with the core curriculm that makes them smarter, or less lazy? that's ridiculous. the kids. because these kids are trusted in their decision to follow their own passion/intellectual direction, they are more active than i found at the other schools. brown has more student driven groups than any of the other ivy leagues. </p>

<p>The people who believe in a core curriculum worry that cultural differences within the United States are going to tear the country apart, so we need to have a common set of values and beliefs that are going to unite us," he said. "That is too narrow and limiting a view of the world. An open curriculum gives students equipment for living in a world of difference. It imagines a different kind of community not based on everybody believing the same thing or being part of the same tradition, but a community where our differences can contribute to a more exciting world."</p>

<p>that is from an article i found.
all i'm saying is that brown still has requirements, but they do not have requirements in what class you can take. you take what you want. why? because you're at least 18 years old, you know what interests you, what excites you as a person, and what you want to do with your life, and thus you can make your own decision. i have not found a critiscism for the program from those who have experienced it, but i have found critiscisms for the core curriculum from those who have experienced that. not to mention that the kids who attend brown tend to be very passionate about what they like. they aren't all destined engineers, doctors, or lawyers. many of them would rather pursue a fulfilling life that advocates the exploration of a certain passion, whatever it may be. whether its painting, social activism, astronomy, environmental engineering, economics. people are different, so you can expect people do have different passions. it really matters how you define success, but if you define success in being happy with what you do, then i think all the brown kids are on the right track.</p>

<p>and not to mention, brown recieved the most number of fulbright scholars this year out of any institution. sure, go ahead and critiscize the fulbright scholarship, and say its nothing like the rhodes scholarship. but in the past 50 years, over 39 fulbright scholars have gone on to win the nobel peace prize.</p>

28

<p>I don't know. It's an interesting question. I agree with shawbridge, who noted that it depends on who's doing the rating. I've felt that Brown is underrated in U.S. News rankings - but they have their own criteria, and Susie Snowglobe who's deciding which college to apply to will have different (and more important) criteria.</p>

<p>I like Brown quite a bit. I like its atmosphere, professors, classes. But it's not terribly impressive, really. It's just a college. It's not as 'wow' as one might expect it to be (but then you can hear similar things about Harvard, so I don't know what that says). It also seems like (some) students feel like they have something to prove. Brown isn't as well-known (or, in some circles, -respected) as most other Ivies in my experience (no one would say, 'What? Where?' to Columbia or Cornell but I've gotten that for Brown and Dartmouth), and thus it has to be defended. I really don't care how many of my professors are Nobel Laureates or whatever if they can't teach, you know? People should be more secure. Of course, then there's the whole issue of using 'Ivy League', a sports conference, as some kind of mark of distinction. I hate that. Ivies are good, but some non-Ivies are just as good, or a lot better, in certain regards.</p>

<p>Once I listened for a while to this drunken guy out on the quad yelling at frat boys that 'Brown is the scum of the Ivy League, and my brother goes to Cornell, and Brown is just scum' (and he kept trying to get them to fight him, lulz). That **** really annoys me. Seriously. It's a college. They're all just schools. Oy.</p>

29

<p>The fact that Brown has the "Ivy" status makes it overrated.
It is certainly not as good as places such as Stanford, MIT, Caltech, and Duke.
I don't think Brown is underrated in U.S News but certainly not overrated either.</p>

30

<p>*"no one would say, 'What? Where?' to Columbia or Cornell but I've gotten that for Brown and Dartmouth"
*
I've also gotten that a lot of times for Stanford. It's not as well known of a school as many people would like to believe.</p>

31

<p>Brown would certainly be on my short list of schools for my daughter to consider, when the time comes.
My main concern is that for a long time Brown was the least well endowed of the Ivy schools, and has had relatively poor financial aid. The problem to me is a preponderance of rich kids.
Schools like Harvard and Princeton have been working on this issue. I get the sense that Brown doesn't have the resources to try.</p>

32

<p>^Brown has a greater endowment per student that Columbia, Penn and Cornell. So in a sense, it has the potential to have better financial aid then these three ivy league schools.</p>

33

<p>I think you are right, Hippo.
But Brown was the last to go need blind, and from what I've seen, has weak financial aid vis a vis its peers. The result is an historically rich student body.</p>

34

<p>danas is right and brings up a great point. brown fin aid is notoriously meh.</p>

35

<p>Oh, as for Brown's strongest departments:</p>

<p>Neuroscience (arguably THE best in the nation)
Molecular biology
Geosciences
Applied math
History of math
IR</p>

36

<p>it's not just about strict resources, it's about making financial aid a priority. for example, harvard could easily eliminate all tuition for all students with their $35 billion endowment but choose not to.</p>

<p>with their $3 billion endowment and $1.4 billion campaign, brown has made financial aid a top priotity.</p>

<p>brown was among the first group of ivy schools to eliminate tuition requirements for the neediest students (four years ago, brown secured a $100 million gift for this purpose). for a substantial portion of the student body, brown is completely free.
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/15/education/15brown.html?_r=1&oref=slogin%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/15/education/15brown.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>if your family makes less than $100,000 brown has completely eliminated the need to take out loans (i.e. you graduate with no debt).</p>

<p>if your family makes $150,000 loans are capped at $5000. </p>

<p>Brown</a> Announces New, Expanded Financial Aid Policy | Brown University Media Relations</p>

37

<p>


</p>

<p>Neuroscience at Brown is not the best in the country. Undergraduate level, no where near the top. Where do you get your information from? I've pretty much gone through all the threads on CC concerning the "best" neuroscience programs. Brown was mentioned only a couple times in 2-3 threads.</p>

<p>Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Yale, Hopkins, UCSD probably each have the best undergraduate neuroscience programs in the nation.</p>

<p>Molecular Biology? IR? Geosciences? </p>

<p>Actually, Geosciences is very strong at Brown. So is Molecular Biology. (saw a Brown professor featured on Science channel on both these topics.)</p>

38

<p>Brown does have the best Neuroscience program in the country.
The professors who teach neuroscience at Brown are the ones who wrote the textbook that all the other schools use including HYP. you can look this up.</p>

39

<p>Brown with "best neuroscience program" in the nation. Not even close. </p>

<p>You're telling me to look up stuff to back up what... your assertions? hahaha Thats not how it goes or how it works.</p>

40

<p>^
I'm not going to pretend to know what I'm talking about, but it seems that you're backing up your points with the Science channel.</p>