<p>Brown!! :)</p>
<p>Ok, ymmik8, you say Brown. But WHY? What would make it a good fit for OP’s kid?<br>
Details are being sought!</p>
<p>Two very different schools, culturally and geographically.</p>
<p>Just my opinion(s):</p>
<p>Dartmouth offers the finest undergrad education in the Ivy league–it is about and for its undergraduates. It is very strong across the academic spectrum–languages, sciences, English, History, and I know nothing about its engineering. It is isolated and cold, and my daughter would have eaten her own head before she would have submitted to a college experience in rural, removed USA (I, on the other hand, like rural). The medium-big city kid generally does not, and the cold and isolation can compound homesickness and the difficulty of transition for some kids.</p>
<p>Brown left us cold, but, maybe, it was a bad day. Providence seemed limited, the student guides seemed disingenuous, overly-polished, and arrogant. Admissions didn’t try very hard, which we took to be a barometer of the administration. I hear 50-50 that some kids love Brown while other’s are left with a sense that Brown has a lot of undeserved hype. I know Brown to be very diverse, ethnically; that was not the case at Dartmouth when I attended summer session, there, twenty years ago. </p>
<p>I spent a summer session at Dartmouth, twice, and the drinking sensibility and overly-engaged Greek life was alive and well, then, and I have heard, redundantly, that it is alive and well, now. I also hear complaints about a lot of overt chauvanism and a lot of unapologetic preppiness at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>As far as I’m concerned Brown has Boston, a mere 45 minute train-ride away.</p>
<p>One big ticket item should be–how will geographical isolation (Dartmouth) prey upon or enhance your daughter’s (?) happiness in college. </p>
<p>Good luck and congrats to your daughter–it’s great to have two such choices.</p>
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<p>I feel compelled to offer a counterpoint: after 20+ college tours as a parent, the Brown guide from 10 years ago stands out in my memory as most endearing guide of all. </p>
<p>First of all, he walked us quickly down the line of past presidents/founders portraits in the hallway, pointing at each austere gentleman and said, “Dead white guy, dead white guy…” I realize that sounds terrible or disrespectful, but it worked for me in context to defuse my preconception that Brown, as an Ivy, might be overimpressed with its own past in terms of current culture. </p>
<p>Then we got to a dorm which he indicated was “for sophomores only.” I asked him if that was why the roof slumped. (haha get it, sophomore slump; my son nearly killed me with a look and I shut up after that). </p>
<p>Tourguide did not get the reference, but turned on his heel and began to eyeball the roof carefully as if he had measuring tools in his head. I was impressed and thought he was in-the-moment, curious, quirky, self-effacing, scientific – all things I like in a young person.</p>
<p>This is a nitpicky comment – but Brown is on the East Side of Providence. East Providence is a whole different place.</p>
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<p>I agree that’s the difference that stands out in my mind as a parent who’s visited both of these schools, but never sent a kid to either. Actually, one son got in off the Brown waitlist in late August, was offered a February freshman enrolment with no guarantee of housing on campus. He thought it over for an hour, but said he preferred to keep packing for the top LAC that took him back in May , and never looked back with regret at that choice. Better late than never doesn’t always hold true.</p>
<p>For credibility, I have a daughter in Providence and family-of-origin (mother, brothers) living in central New Hampshire. While I don’t know the ins and outs of campus life, Brown v. Dartmouth, I would say there’s got to be quite a different experience based on
rural/mountainous/snowy landscapes/starry nights vs. the charming city I described above located solidly within the Northeast Corridor (Boston-NYC). </p>
<p>As to how cold each one is, I think even a Providence winter might be a comeuppance for someone from Florida, Texas or California. “Southern New England” is a funny name used to separate Maine/NH/Vt from Mass/CT/RI. The difference is that Northern New England (incl Dartmouth) has lower temperatures but is sometimes a dryer, sunnier winter. Southern NE (incl. Brown) is closer to the ocean, so sometimes the damp winter wind feels cold on one’s bones even if the temps on a given day are warmer in RI than NH. </p>
<p>People who are very accustomed to winter (note location on my screenname) can and do parse out the differences between New Hampshire cold and Rhode Island cold, but if it’s all a new blast for you, expect to find R.I. also provides a new winter-factor. </p>
<p>In some ways you can do more outdoors in winter up in NH than in Providence, simply because the high mountains, drier air and sunny winter days beckon one outdoors more than the seaside cities in winter (Bos, Prov, NYC). </p>
<p>Anyway, scuse the length; actually we’re having a heat wave here in Buf with 40 degrees plus, so I’m out for a walk.</p>
<p>Fire and Rain, thanks; y’know I’ve been corrected on that before and should have remembered.</p>
<p>EAST SIDE of Providence is correct. Thank you.</p>
<p>20 years ago, Providence was a pit. But that’s not remotely true now. The downtown area has been extensively renovated and cleaned up, and the Brown/RISD area remains charming and vibrant. Providence still has its share of urban problems, but it is clearly a nice place to go to college, and it has a lot more going on than Hanover NH, or anyplace you can drive to within an hour from Hanover NH. Also, from Providence you can get to Boston in an hour, even if you don’t have a car.</p>
<p>They are both excellent schools, so the decision should be based on “feel” to OP’s D. Has she visited? I think this is extremely important.</p>
<p>D2 loved Brown on paper, did an overnight, and was so non-plussed that she decided not to apply. D1 visited Dartmouth and absolutely loved it.</p>
<p>Parent of D senior here. Dartmouth ranks higher than Brown as far as recent surveys about quality of undergrad. education and salaries earned by alumni. I would agree that Dartmouth does better than Brown as far as attracting management and banking firms to recruit on campus. As an econ major, back in the fall S went through a whirlwind of interviews through the career center and also on his own, and landed a great, well-paying job. He will tell you the Dartmouth degree has clout. While making the rounds interviewing at various companies, he ran into kids from Harvard, Princeton, Yale, NYU, Wellsley, and a few others. Never anyone from Brown. But we can’t speak for the sciences.</p>
<p>Dartmouth’s quarter system will have a significant impact on your child’s experience and needs to be thoroughly considered. Sophomore summer is great, but other than that, I feel the D plan was more trouble than it was worth. Others will disagree, partly because of study abroad programs which S didn’t do. We did not find transportation to be a problem at all–there are easy options for getting to Boston and NYC, but it is more remote than Brown for sure. Hanover is cute, but very small.</p>
<p>I vote Brown because it is a really good school AND has practically no requirements. You don’t want to be stuck having to take three semesters of a foreign language because you didn’t read the graduation requirements. Not that I’m talking from personal experience.</p>
<p>I don’t think the rankings really matter in all honesty, Brown is a top notch school and, not to say that Dartmouth is a bad school, I had always known about Brown in Texas, whereas I only recently learned that Dartmouth was an Ivy. Don’t take that the wrong way though, both are excellent institutions but I think Brown has more lay prestige. One of my first experiences on campus was seeing a person walking around with a Brown shirt and I was “Wow, that kid goes to Brown” and I still am very impressed by Brown grads.</p>
<p>Spoiler alert here-I am the parent of a Brown grad. Probably everybody gets here with enough preparation and AP classes to sink a ship. What is great about the no-required classes is that it allows you to double-concentrate with ease. My daughter did, and so did all of her friends, and in very disparate areas, like neuroscience and Greek. The concentration requirements are very rigorous. That being said, it’s a very big responsibility to craft your own education. It’s not for the sqeamish. I think that if I had to describe my daughter and her Brown friends, it would be that they are interested and talented in very many areas at the same time. There is an artsy vibe there, and lots of music and theatre as extracurriculars. The area around the college is just lovely. Nice student-type restaurants, bookstores, and you do not need a car to get to anything. There is so much to do on campus, and people really study and work hard. It’s not a cakewalk. Location worked for us, too, because we’re in NJ, and D was able to hop the Amtrak to come home on holiday breaks. Our younger one goes to school in FL, and flying home is much more expensive and problematical. My D was so happy there; we were so happy there. We still go up to Providence for a weekend or two each year because we love it so much and miss it.</p>
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<p>I take it as a reflection of the level of knowledge of a single not terribly sophisticated teenager from Texas, nothing more or less. 
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<p>Some people denigrate Brown for its “lack” of requirements and its pass/fail grading. My observation would be that one would hope that students of that caliber would be self-motivated and intellectually curious. Similarly, the idea that it is a virtue to be able to avoid learning a foreign language in our increasingly global culture is short-sighted, to say the least.</p>
<p>While some naysayers like to point to D’s drinking culture, other naysayers like to point to B’s drug culture. I know at least one person who discouraged their child from applying to B because they were convinced that the place was littered with addicts. I believe that both points of view are frequently overstated.</p>
<p>They are both great schools. I think that visiting is essential.</p>
<p>Does she look better in brown or green???</p>
<p>Crusty Brownie here - </p>
<p>The thing to know about Brown is that it has a bit of an institutional identity-crisis. It is at once part of the establishment and, estranged from it. Will that offend folks here? Probably.</p>
<p>I enjoyed the less formal, stuffy vibe said after time on other campuses but YMMV. Brown is not a school spirit rah-rah place. People love it but, in a quieter way than one might cheering for the Big Red at Cornell or, pledging at Dartmouth. But, folks are probably more self-absorbed because of the open curriculum. </p>
<p>People are either willing to trust themselves to take risks with the open curriculum or, they aren’t. If you are willing to fall down and, get back up and, really give hard, serious thought to the type of person and life you want to live after graduation Brown is for you. Not that other folks aren’t serious about these things, but, the focus on Brown is on empowering the individual from the get-go.</p>
<p>There is this subculture at Brown of people on the edge of their HS class and, having fairly defined quirks which are embraced - a little bit like the John Hughes quote </p>
<p>“I always preferred to hang out with the outcasts, 'cause they were cooler; they had better taste in music, for one thing, I guess because they had more time to develop one with the lack of social interaction they had!” </p>
<p>People aren’t anti-social in fact, people are very nice but, expect edgy and, if you aren’t from an upper-middle class background adjust your mindset too - freshmen audition to be Romeo and Juliet and, get it! so, there is a bit of a confidence issue here too</p>
<p>Brown elevates pursuing one’s passion above much else with much more fervor than at other places which makes for an enriching life but, a hard one too </p>
<p>That’s it from the soapbox lathered in nostalgia :)</p>