Brown vs. Dartmouth

<p>Which of these two colleges would you choose for undergrad, with regard to atmosphere, academics and facilities?</p>

<p>And, for twenty bonus points, why?</p>

<p>I guess that I'm having a bit of difficulty distinguishing between the two: by my understanding, both are academically strong, relatively laid back, and generally described as having a great atmosphere. I haven't had a chance to visit either yet (I'm an international), but will hopefully be correcting this soon.</p>

<p>Thanks for your thoughts,
Jo</p>

<p>They are both amazing but they attract different types IMO. A visit is key, I know my kids knew which of the 2 they loved within an hour of setting foot on the 2 campuses.</p>

<p>My DD loved Brown for the open curriculum. That was everything to her. She didn't love the location but would have chosen Brown over Dartmouth in a flash. She ended up at Amherst for open curriculum plus location/campus feel she preferred. Didn't even consider Dartmouth when application time came.</p>

<p>My DS fell in love with Dartmouth at first sight. He loved the D Plan for all the study abroad and internship opportunities, loved the classic NE campus and outdoor activities. Ended up there as an ED applicant. Hated Brown.</p>

<p>Thanks hmom - that was really useful, just the sort of response that I was hoping for.</p>

<p>As you say, I really need to see the campuses.</p>

<p>Amherst's likely to be another one of my choices - I'd be really interested to hear about your daughter's experience there.</p>

<p>I guess that I'm leaning toward Brown - I think that Dartmouth might be a bit isolated for me, and I'm not too keen on the sound of the D-plan (though I know it's not obligatory).</p>

<p>The D Plan is obligatory while you do get to choose what terms you're there soph and jr. year, everyone is on the plan.</p>

<p>You do have to see the campuses. Providence is a small city but the campus, IMO, isn't as nice. Bottom line is it's still a way to the big cities and Dartmouth's social life is big and active and mostly takes place on a single street! </p>

<p>And it's hard not to be swayed by the love Dartmouth kids have for their school. While I don't see it as much from Brown students, Penn and Princeton are the other ivies that seem to engender this love.</p>

<p>DD loves Amherst. She went as a transfer though and comments that 2 years is just perfect given how small it is.</p>

<p>Yeah, visit them. Impertative. They are not fungible. Brown's open curriculum tends to attract a different person than Dartmouth's (by reputation) pre-business/consulting focus.</p>

<p>also note their environments. Brown is at least in Providence, a small city. Dartmouth is in the middle of nowhere. lol. well, not literally, but basically.</p>

<p>personally, I would go with Brown, but it's because I enjoy academic freedom more, and I think I'm just a more liberal person who is open to deep discussions with other liberal people in a nice small city where there are more opportunities to intern/volunteer, etc. But, that's just me :D</p>

<p>From a Cornellian's unbiased perspective.... Dartmouth, its my other Ivy crush</p>

<p>Sorry, I wasn't very clear: what I meant (wrt. the Dartmouth plan) is that one can approach the system as just being a provision for longer holidays, rather than to study abroad (the US lifestyle is a key part of what I'm paying 30k a year for) or intern (which I've heard is tricky for internationals). Obviously, I'd want to do something with the time, but I'd rather get my money's worth, to be honest (boy, do I sound like a geek).</p>

<p>The difference in campus / location seems to be the biggest difference. Initially, I wasn't planning on applying to Amherst by reason of it's small size, but apparently it's fairly lively (at least compared with Williams) by merit of UMassA etc. It sounds like Dartmouth largely compensates for its back-of-the-woods location by having a livlier campus scene.</p>

<p>I'm interested to hear that about college pride - I only know one person at Brown, and they're very positive about it.</p>

<p>Dunnin & Hope2getrice - I was interested to hear your comments about the student body - I guess that's a score for Brown: I'm not desperately keen on the business / consulting type (broadly speaking).</p>

<p>bjmountsi - always glad to hear an "unbiased" opinion. ;-)</p>

<p>Thanks again to hmom, and to Dunnin, Hope2getrice and bjmountsi.</p>

<p>Oh haha, I just said I was unbiased because I don't attend either school and I am at a peer university (Cornell) and have researched both of them. Good luck! You really cannot go wrong!</p>

<p>This has been explored a ton on the Brown page and it's worth searching for posts on there about it. Slipper1234, a Dartmouth student who also considered Brown is a great resource.</p>

<p>FWIW, hmom, you're nuts if you don't think Brown engenders love amongst its students. We're more rabid about loving our school than just about any other place I know, including huge state schools with tremendous sports teams. People are extremely loyal to and enamored by Brown. It's almost overwhelming.</p>

<p>I work in an office that's almost exclusively ivy grads. Just reporting what I've seen there and among my peers and my kids' friends for 3 decades.</p>

<p>I also think alum giving says a lot and Princeton and Dartmouth lead the ivies there.</p>

<p>Alum giving at Brown (by percent) is also quite high. I'm saying this as a student here right now in his senior year and banking on measures like "Happiest Students",the fact that we have three times more people interview to be a tour guide (non-paid position), and that the ADOCH (our accepted student day) t-shirt given to staff only is a highly sought after commodity. Brown student's overwhelming love of this place is one of the things that myself and many of my friends were attracted to here.</p>

<p>All I'm saying is spend some time on our campus these days-- maybe the environment is different than it was even 10 years ago (Brown has gone through a lot of changes in that span).</p>

<p>Not at all meaning to imply Brown students are not very happy. Frankly, I think most top colleges have happy students in general. </p>

<p>A few years ago part of a top school student satisfaction survey was leaked and it showed Harvard students were the least happy. IMO it's because reality could not possibly live up to the Harvard dream.</p>

<p>Brown students are some of the happiest in the nation!</p>

<p>On school spirit - seems to me that Dartmouth sports are on a whole much more popular than Brown sports. That may factor into the whole school spirit deal...</p>

<p>Personally, I love Brown but Dartmouth would be my number 1 choice if it were closer to a city. I need to be near a city environment, so I'd probably pick Brown.</p>

<p>i went to brown and my brother went to dartmouth</p>

<p>there are several cultural differences that we both noticed. brown tends to be more intellectual and thoughtful, students tend to be more socially engaged and artistic. dartmouth is more work hard/party hard, students lean more conservative and pre-professional.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And it's hard not to be swayed by the love Dartmouth kids have for their school. While I don't see it as much from Brown students, Penn and Princeton are the other ivies that seem to engender this love.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I bleed red and blue, baby. Feel the Penn love!</p>

<p>While I would definitely take Penn over Dartmouth and Brown (I didn't even apply to the latter two), I know they are both phenomenal schools, among the best in the country. Between Dartmouth and Brown, I'd probably pick Brown...at least I can *kind of*feel like I'm in a city..</p>

<p>I was down to the wire last year with this exact same decision. Ultimately what happened was, I made a pro/con list and Dartmouth kept coming out on top (slightly smaller classes, opportunities for outdoor stuff, they seem to have a great amount of resources available for undergrads to do really cool things, the D-Plan) but then I kept trying to fudge it. There was just something ineffable about my visit to Brown that captured my "gut reaction" - and almost a year later, I find it really hard to see myself at Dartmouth. The two biggest differences are (1) the location. yesterday I went straight from mentoring a high school after-school civics program in downtown Providence to a hearing at the State House on a bill I've been working to help pass. Dartmouth is much more isolated, and I get the sense there is less of a chance to do things like that. At the same time, being up on a hill, Brown can very much embody that campus, bubble feel when you want it to. (2) the social scene. I have no doubt that the extent of the wild Greek scene at Dartmouth is vastly overplayed, but I do think that it's definitely more in existence there than at Brown, and as someone who's really not into that sort of thing, I like that aspect of Brown more.</p>

<p>Feel free to contact me if you have more questions - I certainly feel your pain here. They're both great schools.</p>

<p>lfsc... that "ineffabilty" you refer to in your post is important. Pro/Con lists don't lend themselves very well to gut feel. The gestalt of a place is very often not captured by a pro/con analysis of its discreet somponents.</p>

<p>OP -- Go with gut.</p>

<p>Lol I always end up posting this, hope it helps…wrote this for another post. B vs. D comes up so much! Probably more than any other school choice comparison I know…</p>

<p>This is so close to home, so I guess I’ll write alot. Dartmouth/ Brown was my main choice and I ended up choosing Dartmouth but not after some serious thinking. The funny thing is that even after serious contemplation, I literally could not decide and choose Dartmouth basically after a coin flip of sorts lol! During college I visited Brown probably 7-8 weekends, however, so I know it really well. The great news is there is no wrong choice: I loved Dartmouth more than anything, but I am totally convinced I would have loved Brown just as much. These are by far my two of most favorite schools (throw in Stanford as the other).</p>

<p>1) Academics/ recruiting</p>

<p>They are both incredibly strong academically, with very similar placement rates into the top grad schools. Brown’s widely known for having no distributive requirements, which means you don’t have to take any classes you don;t want to. Dartmouth’s distributives are very broad but I liked being forced me to take a couple classes (like Acting for my art) that I might otherwise not have taken. Dartmouth is awesome in terms of teaching and professor engagement, and the school is absolutely focused on the undergrad. I was an anthro major and I got $10K for my thesis research and TWO incredibly active thesis advisors. I literally had some classes with less than five people at the upper levels. Dartmouth professors take you to dinner, they encourage you, and they are amazing. I think part of the reason Dartmouth grads do so well at grad school admissions is the fact that they know their professors so well. Frankly its amazing. I am sure Brown’s academics are great too, but Dartmouth does have a terrific LAC-like feel. People love to discard the D-plan but I thought it was awesome. Sophomore summer is most students favorite term.</p>

<ol>
<li>Recruiting
Dartmouth does do better with traditional firms (investment banks, consulting) in my experience. Both are very strong, however.</li>
</ol>

<p>Study Abroad?
Most students at Dartmouth go on a study abroad, many go on 2-3. Its not only a thing to do, its a way of life. The language programs are OUTSTANDING, you not only have small classes a preparation, you have drill with its “rassias method” which is an amazingly fun way to really learn a language. Study abroad programs include a professor and about 20 other Dartmouth students (which is different from other schools which have people from al schools). There are special trips every weekend and you get to become incredibly close to your fellow Dartmouth students. Also since Dartmouth is on the quarter system it allows for multiple study abroads.</p>

<p>3) Campus location and closest city/town location
In my opinion Brown’s nearby Thayer Street blows Hanover out of the water. East Providence is hip, cool, and there are alot of great restaurants and it really does cater to students. Providence itself isn’t that wonderful, but its awesome in the area where Brown is located. Conversely, Hanover is beautiful but I found the town to be more stodgy and its not catered to students. In terms of the city, Brown wins bigtime.</p>

<p>ON the other hand, Dartmouth’s location in the mountains is amazing. The outdoor access is awesome, people ski during the winters on the skiway, jump in the river in summers. To be honest only a select group of students are into the hardcore outdoors. Its the casual outdoor stuff like snowball fights during the winter, riding your bike through the beautiful fall leaves, the swimming in the river during summers, BBQs by houses on the river, the awesome stars when you are out at night, etc, etc. During the summer the campus feels like a magical summer camp, during the winters its charming and warm.</p>

<p>4) Social scene
Brown is very active socially. The dorms restrictions are very lax so first-year parties abound. There are house parties, frat parties, bars, and people even venture downtown to clubs. Its a more cliquey scene, however. Different groups tend to stick together more, so its less community oriented. It feels more like a University than Dartmouth, which is a good or bad thing depending on what you are looking for.</p>

<p>Dartmouth is very community oriented. The Greek scene is huge, but its unlike any other greek scene anywhere. The houses are all open for parties to everyone and there’s actually a campus list publishing the big parties that weekend. What usually happens is there will be two-three big dance parties a night plus lots of houses will have smaller groups hanging out. The cool thing is there is usally alot of energy as everyone is going to the same key places or are at least aware of the big parties. Its absolutely open and everyone is absolutely friendly. In addition to the greek scene there is a house party scene, smaller gatherings in dorms, plus niche scenes like the organic farm crowd or the Ledyard Canoe club crowd. The nights are full of activity. Dartmouth’s downside might be that its jock culture does have power with the frats, places like Chi Heorot, Theta Delt, and Psi U are centered around sports teams and I think this can intimidating. The upside is there is a large social scene outside these places.</p>

<p>I think its safe to say Brown has smaller gatherings for niche groups (although there are big parties!), while Dartmouth has bigger parties that everyone goes to all the time.</p>

<p>5) Campus population
Both are equally diverse, although Dartmouth is conceived as less diverse than Brown the truth is they are about equal. But since its smaller the sheer number of members of these groups is smaller so it might feel less diverse. However, people interact between groups at Dartmouth amazingly well. Yet I think some minority groups find comfort in sticking together and someone who grew up only hanging out with a particular minority crowd might like Brown more. Also, Brown does “feel” more international in terms of student makeup.</p>

<p>In terms of student politics I would say there is a huge overlap of “liberal” students at both. Dartmouth is more accepting of people with a conservative (libertarian) point of view, but overall I’d say 80-85% of Dartmouth is liberal while 85-90% of Brown is liberal. Frankly its not that large a difference.</p>

<p>Overall thought the students at Dartmouth overwhelmingly are the playful, fun loving, brilliant type. People tend to play down themselves which is great and refreshing among the Ivies. My experience with Brown students is that they are very similar but a little more “edgy” and they wear identity as such a little more on their sleeve</p>

<p>I’ve been to and know alums from many many schools and hands down these two seem to provide the best college experience. You just can’t go wrong.</p>

<p>I predicted Slipper’s presence earlier. Easily the most helpful student, in my opinion, to talk to on this site about these schools.</p>