<p>Hi guys… I’ve applied Columbia ED…</p>
<p>But I’m starting to really like Brown.</p>
<p>While I wait for the Columbia decision, anyone want to give me their take on “Brown vs. Columbia”? (from location, courses/requirements, social life to everything else).</p>
<p>location: Providence vs NYC. Depends on what you like. Providence is a smaller city, has the New England feel to it. NYC, is well, NYC.</p>
<p>The social life probably extends quite a bit from the location. Brown is probably more campus oriented, Columbian's prolly go out to the city for fun.</p>
<p>REquirements are the major difference. Columbia has the huge core, Brown has no core at all. </p>
<p>I'm not sure about reputation.</p>
<p>ok thanks.. anyone like to expand more?</p>
<p>Oh and another question... why is the Brown board so quiet? (not as obssessive or 'passionate' as Columbia's?)</p>
<p>Here are some key differences, as I see them.</p>
<p>Brown has an institutional culture that promotes intellectual freedom and exploration. You are encouraged to follow your own gut, and make your education as you go. At Brown, you can take high level classes as a freshman or introductory classes as a senior, random classes at any time without worrying about your grade, or specific classes that you want to build on and excel at. </p>
<p>In order to navigate in this environment and be successful, you have to be very self-directed and motivated. Some people are uncomfortable with this because they don't trust themselves with so many choices and are afraid of getting lost. Others thrive at Brown, and create a completely personalized, unique education that allows them to acheive whatever dreams they may have.</p>
<p>Two things facillitate an amazing learning environment: 1) everyone is in class because they chose to be there, and hence everyone in your classes will be extremely interested in learning. 2) everyone is doing something unique with their education, enriching your own experience by allowing you to have dozens of different vicarious experiences through the people around you</p>
<p>Lastly, Brown is more artsy, students tend to be romantics and dreamers that think of life wholistically. </p>
<p>Columbia, as everyone points out, wants their students to be well-rounded too but they mandate that everyone is well-rounded homogenously with a strict core. Although students definitely graduate extremely competent in the path they chose and well-rounded, exploration is more limited, people set out on directed paths and are guided towards predetermined sets of goals. People at Columbia enjoy that they have a common bond through the core classes they were all required to take.</p>
<p>the core will come up everytime. Intellectually, they're very similar, they both are into learning for learning's sake a lot of times. But that core seperates whatever similarities they have.</p>
<p>Interesting discussion. Both great schools, obviously, and thinking about the differences might really help students figure out what's most important to them in picking a college.</p>
<p>My son looked at both, and ended up applying to Columbia, where he's now a first year. He doesn't know what he eventually wants to do. Friends of his chose Brown because they, also, don't know what they want to study or major in, and therefore the lack of requirements seemed ideal for exploration. My son's reaction was the opposite -- he thought that the lack of requirements meant he could wander around a lot of unrelated courses, since he's interested in so many things, and not end up with a focus. He found the core curriculum at Columbia appealing, because he will end up with a solid liberal arts education, no matter what he does choose as a major.
Another difference, of course is location. They are both urban, which was the reason he looked at both. Most of his friends at Brown found New York City a little overwhelming. He found Providence a little small, especially in terms of the music scene.
I hear most people love Brown. I think a lot of people love Columbia, too, but they tend to talk more about how much they love New York City. I don't know whether this is as much a difference between the two experiences as it reflects the different reasons why students chose the colleges in the first place. Certainly, the administration at Brown has the reputation for being friendlier. My son has some great professors at Columbia, but I think students there need to be more aggressive in seeking out faculty than at Brown, where faculty might seek them out instead. This is just an impression.
One other thing about Brown. The vast majority of students seem to take a junior year abroad, something that's harder to do at Columbia because of the core and major requirements. On the other hand, if you are a student at Brown and don't take a junior year abroad, most of your friends will be gone that year. This point was brought up by a student we visited at Brown.
As for social life, it seems to be pretty much alcohol-fueled at both.</p>
<p>Alright... well I fell in love with Columbia..so I applied there ED.
But I'm taking a real liking to Brown...</p>
<p>At this point I really want to major in English Lit and Art History/Visual Arts..</p>
<p>I'm so confused, because I'm attracted to both Columbia's core and Brown's flexibility..
I love the fact that Columbia's in NYC, but Brown seems like an amazing school that I'd also fit right into (I like how people say it's more artsy, and more friendly)...
Ah.. why are there so many choices?</p>
<p>Are you thinking about withdrawing your ED app, or converting it to RD?</p>
<p>I can't imagine any better place for Art History than NYC, by the way. Columbia students get free admission to the Met. (My son and one his friends just went.) There are a lot of students at Columbia involved with the arts, which is why they especially want to be in NYC. I don't know if that's the same as being "artsy".</p>
<p>Columbia is intense, but I don't get the sense that it's not friendly. During parents weekend, I overheard one parent say her daughter was finding the school impersonal and the dorm a difficult place to get any sleep (all the other parents I talked to said their kids were loving it.) So, I asked my son if he thought it was impersonal. He said: "not at all." His Lit Hum teacher meets individually with each before each paper is due. His jazz combo has six kids in it. He's gone to office hours for two professors and found both friendly. He describes the professors of his two lecture classes as "awesome" lecturers.
And, though he went there knowing no one, he seems to have made friends just fine.</p>
<p>Hope that helps. If you REALLY are unsure, you might change your ED application to RD to preserve your options. At this stage last year, my son didn't really have a first choice and so he didn't apply to Columbia ED.</p>
<p>No I'm not thinking about withdrawing my ED app at all..</p>
<p>I mean... I absolutely adore Columbia and want to go there more than anything..
But I'm doing my RD apps now (my contingency plans)... and I have to prepare myself for the worst, in case Columbia Rs me.. And Brown is a place I think I'll like.. more than NYU.</p>
<p>Going ahead with your RD apps makes absolute sense. The truth is, you would be happy at lots of different schools. And, as I said, Brown is definitely a place students love. You might also look at U of Chicago, if you like the core curriculum and an urban school.</p>
<p>Yep :) UChicago is on my RD list :)</p>
<p>As is Barnard and NYU (even tho' I don't like NYU much..)</p>
<p>Good Luck!!</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
<p>see the thread "brown just rocks." </p>
<p>I want to respond to this statement by dcircle:
"Columbia, as everyone points out, wants their students to be well-rounded too but they mandate that everyone is well-rounded homogenously with a strict core. Although students definitely graduate extremely competent in the path they chose and well-rounded, exploration is more limited, people set out on directed paths and are guided towards predetermined sets of goals. People at Columbia enjoy that they have a common bond through the core classes they were all required to take."</p>
<p>Exploration is by no means more limited; just because Columbia has core requirements, doesn't mean that they forbid you from taking other courses. Columbia students definitely don't set out on directed paths! The core curriculum is not a law which dictates the careers and entire curriculum of a Columbia student - I think you may be blowing that aspect of it completely out of proportion... and there is no predetermined set of goals. If you think they do exist, I'd love for you to share what they are. </p>
<p>Columbia is considered to be a college where students learn for the sake of learning, with very little pre-professional focus. The Core actually functions to WIDEN the perspective of students, rather than to limit them. Let's face it, you learn very little about Mozart and El Greco and Herodotus and V. Woolfe in High School. Students who go on to be pure science majors in a school like Brown can live their whole lives without ever really being exposed to the great works of these masters. They may be missing something that could've truly changed their lives. </p>
<p>The argument can be made that Brown students actually have a more predetermined path than Columbia, because without clear goals they would not succeed in a school that is so open-ended. And I do agree, the common bond at Columbia is attractive. It is an undergraduate school, and I want to feel the sense of community at a Columbia reunion, even if I'm talking to someone I didn't know while I was a student.</p>
<p>But I'm getting ahead of myself... haha let's see if i can get IN first.</p>
<p>OH and i have to respond to this</p>
<p>"Lastly, Brown is more artsy [compared to Columbia], students tend to be romantics and dreamers that think of life wholistically." </p>
<p>That is too vast of a generalization to make... I don't think it can be defended at all, not even to the tiniest extent.</p>
<p>contessa,</p>
<p>(no offense is meant by any of this, i just love the brown vs. columbia argument, particularly since the schools are quite different and many attempts have been made to start a rivalry) so touche =)</p>
<p>on the topic of limited exploration:</p>
<p>i think columbia is certainly more limited in this regard than brown or even a school that opts for distribution requirements in lieu of a core. this is not to say that columbia is restrictive or you can't change your mind--but it's all relative. for example, at brown i was able to switch from international relations to neuroscience as a junior in college. it wasn't easy, but i was able to pull it off and succeed at the highest level--i wrote a thesis and did seminal research with a nobel laureate faculty member and went on to get admitted into a presitgious MD/PhD program--all because brown trusted me with that choice. i was involved for years as a college writing fellow, a program mostly composed of literature majors, and was able to maintain my interest in international relations by taking five classes a term. along the way, i also took classes in philosophy, literature, spanish, etc. again, all because i was given the incredible freedom to make seemingly disparate choices.</p>
<p>on the learning for learning's sake:</p>
<p>highly tauted core aside, columbia definitely has more of a pre-professional reputation in academia than many of the other ivies, and is most often compared to schools like chicago and penn for precisely this reason.</p>
<p>"The argument can be made that Brown students actually have a more predetermined path than Columbia, because without clear goals they would not succeed in a school that is so open-ended."</p>
<p>I'm not sure what you mean by this...are you saying Brown students have a predetermined path because they won't succeed? ouch =)</p>
<p>I don't understand how you can argue that a requirement expands exploration. Rarely does exploration occur under forced conditions. Very clearly, Columbia's program is geared towards western civilization and its' foundations. For $40,000 and a considerable debt, Shouldn't you be trusted to make your own decisions instead of a curriculum committee? Finally, President Gregorian commisioned studies which revealed that 90% of undergrads would have fulfilled distribution requirements anyway. Yet, isn't it nice to have the choice?</p>
<p>One more point that many leave out: Brown is tied in with the top, or at least one of the top, art schools in the country:RISD. Kids at Brown can take courses, with some planning due to different scheduling, in painting, glassblowing, blacksmithing (making swords), graphics,photography, woodworking, ceramics etc, all given by top notch, well-known artists. Also, RISD kids, who are smart, fun, and passionate, intermingle with Brown kids. This provides a real counterbalance to the education. RISD kids are also mainly female and very, very good looking. I visited RISD with my wife and my daughter, and even my wife commented on how many students seemed very trim and good looking. </p>
<p>Thus, this adds a little different flavor to Brown.</p>
<p>so like.. columbia girls have competition from barnard girls..
brown girls have competition from RISD girls eh?</p>
<p>Silver_wavez: Yes and no. Brown girls seem to have different interests. There is a whole different culture among Brown vs. RISD kids. Also, if the girl either has a decent personality or is good looking or both, she won't have any problems socially. In fact, I think that any girl willing to get out and meet people will not have any social problems. College Hill is a nice friendly place. People are more than willing to meet other folks there.</p>
<p>Also, just to chirp in my two cents. I can't imagine why anyone would prefer to take a structured curriculum, which is mandated by someone else, instead of taking the courses that they really want to take. I do understand the reasoning for the core requirements for Columbia, I just hate that I couldn't structure my own education. I agree with Brown's approach. Maybe if these were not smart and talented kids, they would need a core curriculum.</p>
<p>Brown would, thus, offer the best of all worlds: you can take courses equivilant to the core requrements or structure your education to fit your needs and desires. This has to make for happier more motivated kids.</p>