Hi everyone,
I applied and got into both Bryn Mawr and the University of St. Andrews in Scotland as a double major in psychology and economics. I’m having trouble deciding between the two because I absolutely LOVE both places.
What are some advantages of attending one university over the other? I’m fairly open-minded and I’m not too picky about small details.
Bryn Mawr you can change majors if you want and you’ll get more breadth in your classes.
It’s very hard to switch majors at St. Andrews and you jump right into courses in your major(s).
St. Andrews is much more a party school, with fairly heavy drinking. Bryn Mawr has a quieter social scene. Plus the whole coed vs female only thing, of course.
At BM, you can take advantage of the consortium to study at Haverford easily, and UPenn and Swarthmore with a little more effort. No grad students at BM.
Smaller classes on average at BM and probably a little more “hand holding” in terms of more individualized attention. Less of a sink or swim type of environment compared to St. A.
They are both beautiful schools - BM is more of a separate campus, St. A is integrated into the town. Nice spot on the water is a plus.
If you plan to have career in the USA, it might be easier to find internships/jobs/alumni connections at Bryn Mawr.
You might find more socio-economic diversity at BM. St. A has a bit of a rich kid vibe to it.
Hi Sputnik96
I can’t compare/contrast Bryn Mawr with St Andrews as I have no experience with Bryn Mawr other than to know it is an excellent school and you would have a wonderful experience there I am sure.
My daughter (American) goes to St Andrews so I can speak to that a bit. St Andrews is a wonderful university in a beautiful coastal town. Have you visited? The economics building looks out over the ocean!
SA is rich in tradition with students wearing red academic robes for special occasions and on Sundays many students walk the town pier in their robes to commemorate a student who lost his life trying to help save those in a ship wreck (hundreds of years ago). They also wear the robes on what would be equivalent to our Veterans Day - called Remembrance Day. This year they wore their gowns at night carrying torches down to the pier to commemorate the 100 Anniversary of WWI. It made for a spectacular sight. There are other times the robes are worn as well. That being said purchasing the robe is entirely optional but most do own one. Another tradition that is unique is having academic families. I am not familiar with an US schools doing that but I am not sure. A male and female student in their third year adopts a fresher (freshman) and becomes their Academic Mom and Dad. The academic parents are supposed to help you acclimate to university life. Then toward the end of October they have what is called Raisin Weekend. Too long to explain here but it has to do with academic families, parties and it all ending on Raisin Monday with thousands of freshers dressed up having a huge foam (shaving cream) fight. Again this tradition is hundreds of years old. In fact the university recently celebrated its 600th anniversary!
Yes, one needs to be aware that the drinking age in Scotland is 18. The culture is that drinking is a normal social activity. My daughter hadn’t done much drinking at all before she got there. She is still not a big drinker and doesn’t go just to ‘get drunk’ but that hasn’t slowed her down socially. She loves it!
I also want to clarify that St Andrews is much more socio-economically diverse that it is given credit for. Most of the ‘weathly’ culture comes from the Americans, to be honest. American’s have to pay full tuition with little if any financial aid (will that make a difference for you). The American students tend to come from more ‘privileged backgrounds’. Most UK students are on loans just like most students in the U.S. The UK students are very cost conscious and are not afraid to speak their mind. Like most US universities you’ll find some very wealthy students as well as students who are on full financial aid and everywhere in-between.
As far as academically she feels challenged and making top grades is not easy! But she finds the classes (lectures and tutorials) interesting. One of her professors this semester was formerly a professor at Oxford and one last semester was from Berkley. I don’ know about her other professors. Students are treated like adults and there is no hand holding but professors (tutors) will talk with you. Students need to learn to budget their time well. Students tend to be very supportive of each other.
My daughter is loves St. Andrews. She has made incredible friends.
Best of luck in your decision making! If you have any questions regarding SA I will be happy to try and answer them.
doschicos points are well made, and keldipow has what every parent wants: a happy student! Just to add a couple of small points.
True, but easy to underestimate the implications, especially if you haven’t visited St As>
BM is a separate campus close to Philadelphia (20 minutes by car). A 5 minute walk takes you to a commuter train that goes into Philadelphia (about an hour), and connects with Amtrak to Washington, DC or NYC.
St. A’s is 1 1/2 hours from Edinburgh by car. It is 6 miles (bus or taxi) to the train station, and the journey is about an hour, or 2 hours by bus from the center of town (the bus is a big comfy type). It is 6 hours by train to London.
St Andrews is a lovely town, but it is very isolated. Being in Scotland makes that seem more exciting than if it was in the mid-west, and it certainly has traditions and traits that are very different than you would find in the midwest, but from a UK perspective it is seen as being similarly remote.
In practice, students at any university do not tend to go an hour away from campus very often during term, so this may not be relevant to you.
Both unis have a significant international profile- about 25% @ BM and 15% @ StA’s (actually 30% overall at StAs, but half of those are American, so not very ‘international’ for you!). In terms of racial and socio-economic diversity, BM is substantially more diverse.
This is not really a reason to choose one over the other, but be aware that St As is ‘committed’ to providing housing for first year students… but the hunt for housing in subsequent years is a blood sport. Obviously, it works out in the end, but forewarned is forearmed! BM, obviously, provides housing all the way through.
You’re comparing an brook to an ocean - Bryn Mawr and St. Andrews are wildly different in almost every aspect - in size, in mission, in community. Both have benefits, but they are just worlds different. Many advantages of St. Andrews over Bryn Mawr are also Bryn Mawr’s advantages over St. Andrews. Take size - St. Andrews has the advantage of size - it’s a large university and has a great breadth of students and resources. Its large size is an asset. At Bryn Mawr, the small size is also an asset - it’s small community creates a welcoming environment and engaging, small, discussion-based classes.
Thank you all for your wonderful comments! I’m traveling to both Scotland and Philadelphia next week, and I’m hoping that my visitation will make the decision easier (hopefully not harder!).
One of my biggest questions regards after college though… How difficult would it be to gain admission to an American graduate school after attending St. Andrews? I heard one needs a lot of networking to get into grad school, and a school’s alumni base plays a huge role in this. @Keldipow, would you know anything about St. Andrews’ alumni base in the US?
On an unrelated question for @keldipow, how was your daughter’s transition to a European university? I heard St. Andrews and other European universities are much different from American universities, but I’d like to know how specifically? Was it a big transition on the academic side, the social side, or both?
It depends on what type of grad school- you are talking about psych & econ, which are very different paths!
For the grad schools with which I am most familiar, networking is not at all essential for admission (though it can be useful for identifying programs that are interesting to you). The bigger question will be if your course has given you the prerequisites, and what you have done with your summers. Although it is changing, using your summers for internships or summer coursework is less common in the UK. On the other hand, vac (vacation) schemes (and graduate schemes for that matter, but I don’t think they apply to you) are much more common than in the US. Large companies will have vac shemes that are as short as 1 week (usually over Easter), or as long as 10 weeks, and are always paid. If you are at StAs they will have lots of information on them.
I’ll leave keldipow to give you her daughter’s experience of the transition but I will add that St Andrew’s has worked very hard to make it a happy experience for American students. Her point about ‘hand-holding’ and student support of each other go together: St As does more hand-holding than most UK unis, but by US standards, students are expected to be much more self-sufficient, to figure things out for themselves. UK students are used to this, and are used to counting on each other rather than adults.
Finally, (and apologies if you have done) have you looked really carefully at what your course would be like at St As? b/c even though St As is by a good way the most flexible of the UK unis, as a dual honours course you will have more of your modules specified than you might realize. Buried in the course catalogue will be a list of required modules, by year.
Hi @collegemom3717, thank you for insight regarding graduate school. I have done my research and looked at the honours courses and they seem fine to me. Most likely I’ll be attending graduate school for econ, possibly business school, a masters program, or even law school (the last one is the least likely).
That can make a great combination- UK undergrad / US postgrad. In general, Econ / business grad schools are less ‘networking’ influenced than psych, which will stand to you.