I would take the hooks factor a constant (or “noise”) when comparing the admittance/matriculation stats between elite boarding schools. It is an indication of the strength of student body, more than anything else IMO. The rigor of the school as seen by colleges can help too. And I agree with @doschicos’s ‘disclaimer’.
^^ Or half of it. Actually, the past performance has been a pretty reliable indication for future outcomes historically, at least in the distribution of colleges matriculated in terms of selectivity. Overall, arguably “anything” about these schools has been pretty stable over time and changes if any happen slowly and gradually.
I analyzed last year’s Mercersburg grads for my own pleasure. My subjective results: At least half (60-something) went to what I would call top schools (Ivies and equivalents, most selective LACs, military academies, and so-called public Ivies). At least two-thirds of the remainder (40-something) went to other “respectable” colleges (state flagships other than the few most prestigious, well-known but not ultra-selective liberal arts colleges, large and famous private universities). About half the remainder were internationals returning home, and the rest (about a dozen, depending upon one’s opinion of certain schools) were going to non-flagship state universities or other colleges with less prestige, at least to me. This tells you nothing about their stats, as @skieurope said. Other factors (financial, religious, etc.) may have come into play. Incidentally, you can find a list on the Phillips Exeter website of their college matriculations for 2014-2016. The range of schools is very similar to Mercersburg’s list. The difference is in the much greater proportion of students who go to the few most selective colleges.
“The difference is in the much greater proportion of students who go to the few most selective collehe’s.” Yes, that’s a major difference between a few and the rest of boarding schools with a price tag of 50K±. Regardless, by and large, the majority of students from these schools end up in fine colleges. You’d see the same in most of the (non religious) private day schools as well. The list of colleges would be very different in public schools (at least the non upper/upper middle class suburban public schools). Money does play that much big a role in education.
We have not idea if the OP is going to be in top third of class, middle third, or bottom third…and if s/he is in bottom third, then his/her chances of going HYP+M/S are just about as good as a kid in the bottom third of an average public school, no? (Hooks, etc. aside)
Data can be misleading. It looks like a lot of kids from Choate go on to Yale. So you think your student’s chances of going to Yale are pretty good right? Well, no. Those kids are largely students whose parents are professors at Yale and are day students at Choate. Also, the pool is largely made up of recruited athletes, not your run of the mill top student academically.
I’d say go with your gut. You can’t go wrong at either school. Go where the student feels they can do their best work. Is there a department they are gravitating to where it seems like a win-win situation? My oldest was enamored with Choate’s Economics team who had won several awards and had a teacher who was really dedicated to it. She also loved the track and track was her thing at the time. Those things matter more in helping your student have great opportunities, more than the college matriculation list.
From another thread of mine…
If you look at the matriculation data of Milton to Harvard it proves @preppedparent 's point… Data can be misleading… For one year Milton had a very high number of legacy and impact athletes that affected the overall avg…
Please don’t base your decision on Matriculation… Both Lawrenceville and Choate are wonderful schools with excellent academics and opportunities… In the end it will be YOUR work and actions that will get you into the college you wish to go to…
@Atria Not sure that’s the way to compile the matriculation stats. Try using bigger “baskets” to group schools to minimize the “constants” that could affect many BS. Here’s an example: http://web.archive.org/web/20100223003259/http://matriculationstats.org/boarding-school-stats
In any case, I think it’s fair to say that 1) the college outcomes of different schools have a lot to do with the students they enroll in the first place; 2) Most of the BSs often mentioned here have good to great college counseling with the goal of “making full use of” their students’ strengths and hooks and help them achieve the best results; and 3) no one should draw conclusion about their own individual prospective of being admitted to a highly selective college in a few years based on historical collective data/stats about the student body of a whole school.
@preppedparent YES–most Ivy admits from all of these top BSs are athletes, URMs, and Legacies. …Ground Hog Day here on CC. LOL
^^That’s pretty discouraging and not necessarily true. You have no way of knowing that.
My daughter attended a top BS, had none of those “hooks” and is now at an Ivy.
^^yes, there are always a few kids who break the mold, but I think @Center’s point is well taken. In our experience, there’s a lot more going on with admission to elite colleges, than grades and scores.
Of course its not a 100%. I said MOST. I highly recommend someone look up sports rosters at Ivies for any sport but start with lacrosse, rowing and hockey…see where they went to high school. Nowhere to “see” legacy or URM but we know its there. Plus there are other hooks with the little H. Art, music and so on. Quasi academic hooks.
From my experience following many graduating classes at my kids’ school (only one I can speak to) is it is both. You’ll see some athletes, legacies, URMS, and development cases get into Ivies. In my experience, the legacies and URMs especially are very solid performers anyway. In a few instances the athletes were more middle of the pack. I have seen development cases where it left folks scratching heads if it wasn’t for the very deep pockets.
However, kids at the tippy top of the graduating class do very, very well regardless. They are not getting rejected from Ivies. It’s more like which one do they choose?
The truth is that it’s a mix, some with double/triple hooks, some with one, and some without any. It is not as predictable as some of you make it, at all. Since it is not easy to know all the hooks your peers have, as such, lots of speculations and rumors about why who gets in where float around. And it’s always comforting for those who did not get in to attribute the outcome to the system or something they have no control over. Do people without any hook tend to need to be “more qualified”? Probably true. But it doesn’t mean no matter how good you are, hooks rule it all, nor does it mean those without hooks need to be valedictorian to win. Please do not spread the myths.
You are talking about colleges with single digit admit rates. It is NOT easy for anyone, and you need something extraordinary or otherwise highly convincing to get in. Having said that, I do think everything else being equal, one’s chance of getting selected may be slightly better in a school with a big cohort of students admitted to those highly selective colleges because - let’s face it, in BSs with a price tag of 50K and competing for the same pool of applicants, it’s hard to argue one school’s students (in percentage) with hooks are significantly more/less than in another. And if a school consistently has only a few admitted to those colleges year after year, how much of a chance is left for those without any hook (or with hooks for that matter)?
This. People love to have something external to blame their failure on - or to justify not bothering to try.
BS Matriculation lists should be locked away somewhere in a vault.
IDK- I think it would behoove all incoming III/ IV Form students to ignore these lists all together, and focus on what’s at hand until at least Spring Term - V Form year. Maybe focus on more important things like- independent living skills, meeting all the unholy social/academic/athletic requirements, and your undeveloped frontal lobe … for starters.
Parents can certainly dream and project all they want, but there are just too many unknowns between now and college apps… Kids change a lot… and college preferences will change accordingly , too. As they should…
A promising young rower headed for dream college recruitment and future glory can suddenly throw his oars ( along with his/her hook ) at his/her parents and quit the sport forever V Form year.
God forbid - but substance abuse and mental illnesses have been known to derail the most amazing kids- out of nowhere . I can go on and on with other examples straight out of the Worst Case Scenario Parent Handbook , but you get the idea. You can only plan so far ahead. Sadly, family circumstances can also change, too- in a heartbeat.
Besides, these matriculation lists don’t reflect what some people are looking for anyway. No one knows the kid (s) who are behind the Yale ( 5 ), or the Top LAC ( 7 ). Truly smart/ gifted/ qualified kids aren’t always HYP+ M/S driven for a myriad of reasons either . When people look at BS matriculation lists and say, Oh, there’s only a few kids who went to HYP+ M/S , so that must mean something negative about the caliber of Class or School… What? OMG.
That’s hardly a poor reflection on any school. What is wrong with you?
Maybe ( JUST MAYBE ) kids at a particular school , or in a particular Class DIDN’T want to go to HYP+ M/S. I know- right? Horrors. Bottom Line: Every single BS Class has it’s own unique personality. Embrace it and don’t use past results to predict future individual outcomes. To me- that’s just crazy.
A BS matriculation list, after all, is ultimately the school’s brag sheet. It’s not meant to be analyzed by incoming students or their parents. It’s meant to celebrate each and every college acceptance. That’s how it’s been since the Dark Ages, and that’s all anyone needs to know.
And, it’s all good.
Great post, @PhotographerMom, and I totally agree. My own kids had no interest in the Ivies, not saying they would have gotten in if they wanted to. All of us who have been through the process can think of friends/peers of our own children who are bright but took a different path to success than attending the obvious and vaunted colleges. I also know some who went to the tippy top colleges and dropped out or floundered.
I also think that prospective families to boarding school that seem too focused on college matriculation can send the wrong message to admissions and that can be a red flag on an application.
I agree.
Yes, that’s true. But my observation is that these “incidents” happen randomly in every school (and not just due to different interests but also due to finances and other pragmatic matters), and there is not evidence to suggest that they are so much more extensive in some expensive elite NE boarding schools than in others that it becomes some schools’ “tradition” enough to make the school’s matriculation rates to highly selective colleges lag behind in the long haul (oh, not just “some schools”. “Most schools” to be exact)
Thanks @PhotographerMom ! Awesome post. I have a friend whose CC at a day school had her DD in tears for an entire weekend because she was loving Tufts and was going to pick it over the HYP where she’d also been admitted. For their own reasons, they didn’t want her to do that. And it becomes clear reading these posts why they were pushing her!
Be careful what you wish for! I wanted my son’s CC to help him discern what was best gorgeous him, not push him into what was best for the school’s marketing brochure.
The ONLY thing I disagree with some other posters on is that I think the differences in matriculation stats in different BSs are not “accidental” or can simply be explained by “hooks” because there’s clearly a trend over time and the schools in question share similar locations and cultural roots and more importantly the clients of similar demographics. To acknowledge that fact doesn’t make me a prestige monger or a promoter of HYP or bust.